Top Secrets in Ludwikowice/Ludwigsdorf

[MAX_theHitMan]

For those that love a great mystery...
what does the name Ludwikowice/Ludwigsdorf mean to you?

Ludwikowice underground tunnel complex is situated in lower Poland right next to Czech Republic and Germany. It is in an area filled with other Top-Secret tunnels of the Third Reich, in which one of them is the incomplete (?) tunnel system of Riesa (or Riese).
Both of the tunnel complexes were to be connected together, making it almost an entire working city underground, but that was never done because the war ended.

BUT Ludwikowice was working on something mysterious. Something of the most TOP-Secret research in the third Reich. Anyone got anymore information on this?

Make yourself an "image search" on http://www.google.com and write Ludwikowice.
You will find a few photos about it and this...http://www.eksploracja.org.pl/foto_gale ... kowice.htm

Notice the strange concrete "Fly Trap" in one of the pictures. It is called a "fly-trap" because it is round, big, and is associated with helicopter testing. Helicopters or other aircraft are put in the middle of the Flay-trap and tested for flight. If it crashes, the sorrounding concrete walls around protect the observers nearby.
BUT why a "fly-trap" here in this complex???
No helicopters were tested here in this area as far as I have researched. Anyone know of any units tested here? Helicopter units?
Perhaps missiles??? ... V-2´s??... V-9/V-10 prototypes??... other flying "things"?...what?

A certain Emil Mazuw was also involved here with this complex.
He was one of very few Oberst-Gruppenfuhrer (I think)... Above-Top-Top-General in the S.S. - Only Himmler came next in line.
Anyone know more about this Emil Mazuw?

Also a Hans Kammler was involved...a Dr. Ing. Hans Kammler (Chef der Amtsgruppe C im Wirtschaftsverwaltungshauptamt der SS)
No where-abouts as to what happened to this guy.
He completely dissappeared after the war.
Kammler was the engineer who helped in the design and construction of various concentration camps, and later in the war, he was assigned by Heinrich Himmler to take over the Nazi secret weapons programs. By the end of the war, it appears that he had consolidated all of the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe programs into the SS ! His role in the Nazi regime was clearly very important.

Someone has responded by saying...

Alan Heath, of Warsaw, Poland, has replied (January 20, 2004):
"Notwithstanding allegedly disappearing on the U-997 to Argentina, I assumed that Hans Kammler was captured in Czechoslovakia and shot in Jicin on May 12, 1945 by the NKVD along with around 100 others, many of whom were from the SS.
Wernher von Braun and others were captured in late April 1945, they certainly had not seen anything of Kammler since the end of February.
However I can offer no evidence to back this theory up."

What was really happening inside the tunnel complex of Ludwikowice/Ludwigsdorf ?
What type of research were they doing? Why no witnesses are still around?

[Zebedee]

The aforementioned fly-trap also bears a close resemblance to a partially demolished concrete cooling tower. Which would presumably be linked to the power station built just a little further away.

'Top secret' documents given to authors to transcribe long-lost secrets do make for fascinating conspiracy theories though.

[stellung]

After the assassination attempt against Hitler, Himmler was put in charge of Army operations. Soon after, Hitler gave Dr. Ing. Hans Kammler plenopotentiary powers over all secret weapon developments. Strangely, even though a V-2 weapon testing facility operated in Blizna, Poland, there are no confirmed reports of V weapons being used against the Russians. And even though there are kilometers long tunnels in Poland, there are few reports of what they were used for. The structure in Poland is unidentified. Helicopter testing makes little sense.

There are 4-6 reports about the demise of SS General Hans Kammler at the end of the war. There is a confirmed report that the same Kammler was operating a hidden SS research branch in the Prag-Rusin area in Czechoslovakia, to which General Patton was hurriedly sent shortly after its discovery. Many documents were discovered there but not all. This required a further incursion into Czech territory about a year later by the Americans.

[Zebedee]

The structure in Poland is unidentified. Helicopter testing makes little sense.

The fly-trap. (copyright holder unknown)



Another fly-trap masquerading as a cooling tower. Testing a helicopter or flying saucer in here would certainly make for interesting, if messy, results.

[Simon Gunson]

Actually the Reise Complex was home to two top secret SS research groups, SS-E-IV and SS-U-13. Kammler was ultimately in charge as the Plenipotentiary for Science, strictly speaking the Reise complex was under SS Obergruppenfuhrer Emil Mazuw who died peacefully in 1987. Nobody to my knowledge has ever thought to explore interviews with Mazuw. (thanks to Phil Nix for corrections)

Kammler was also however head of the SS evacuation command which was better known for evacuating KZ camp inmates on death marches and shooting those who could not walk. Kammler's evacuation command also used a number of armoured trains to evacuate tons of Luftwaffe secret technology documents from tunnels under Furstenstein Castle (near Walbrzych) to Linz, Austria where US Forces scooped up the documents. One of these armoured Trains is said to have simply disappeared at the end of the war. Another of Kammlers's tasks was the contraversial evacuation of the Nazi Bell device, using the remaining Ju-390 aircraft.

After the war a great deal of information about the Reise complex came from wartime tunnel engineer Anthon Dalmus. Polish Jew Murray Bilfeld was an inmate from Complex Reise who retired in New York. Another KZ inmate Leon Weintraub retired to Sweeden. Hungarian KZ inmate Laszlo Steiner today lives in Vienna. Hungarian KZ inmate Kiva Weinberger lives in Montreal and Maiami. Eli Sommer, a Polish inmate emigrated to USA. Another Polish Jew Alex Olson emigrated to USA. Org Todt's Tunnel construction manager Xaver Dorsch survived the war and provided considerable information about the complex. He died in 1986.

These tunnels were supplied labour from the Gross Rosen KZ camps scattered southeast of Bad Charlottenbrunn (nowadays called Jedlina Zdro). 125,000 Camp inmates were either Soviet POWs, or Jews from Greece, Poland and Hungary. A document by architect Siegfried Schmelcher, entitled “Geheime Reichssache 91/44” gives an overview of the complex.

Monzanite deposits containing Thorium oxides were mined quite close to the tunnel complex at Wüstegiersdorf (now Gluzyca). 120 Danish and Norwegian nuclear scientists were employed at the site and 63 are said to have been executed by the SS at the end of the war to keep secret the research conducted there. One secret project at the complex relates to a new fighter plane called the V-7.

These camps comprised 4 major camps and 12 satellite camps. SS Guards were controlled by SS Obersturmbahnfuhrer Karl Belbo. There were also four Luftwaffe airfields spread amongst the entrances to these tunnels.

I created this original map of complex Reisenbirge which anyone may copy:

[Zebedee]

Monzanite deposits containing Thorium oxides were mined quite close to the tunnel complex at Wüstegiersdorf (now Gluzyca). 120 Danish and Norwegian nuclear scientists were employed at the site and 63 are said to have been executed by the SS at the end of the war to keep secret the research conducted there. One secret project at the complex relates to a new fighter plane called the V-7.

Hi Simon,

any information on the scientists supposedly executed? I'd imagine that the loss of such a huge part of the Scandinavian physics fraternity would have been investigated or at least drawn some attention?

All the best,

Zeb

[paolosilv]

Kammler disregarded the order to execute the Nazi scientists, hence he was wanted by the Nazis after 27 April 1945.

[bil]

Any word on the whereabouts of the scientists? ---bil

[Alex Tijerina]

"new fighter plane called the V-7"

I tryed doing a google search on this plane but could not find anything about it. Do you have any spec's or pictures of this prototype?

[utsola]

Monzanite deposits containing Thorium oxides were mined quite close to the tunnel complex at Wüstegiersdorf (now Gluzyca). 120 Danish and Norwegian nuclear scientists were employed at the site and 63 are said to have been executed by the SS at the end of the war to keep secret the research conducted there. One secret project at the complex relates to a new fighter plane called the V-7.

Hi Simon,

any information on the scientists supposedly executed? I'd imagine that the loss of such a huge part of the Scandinavian physics fraternity would have been investigated or at least drawn some attention?

All the best,

Zeb

Dear all
As a Norwegian myself, there was no execution of this nuclear scientist, I dote that they iwen exsistet, Norway was at this time in history not a well educatied country. But anyway this have never happend,It woud have been one of the major cases in Norwegian war history and ther are no surces on this.
Thanks
Martin

[Zebedee]

Dear all
As a Norwegian myself, there was no execution of this nuclear scientist, I dote that they iwen exsistet, Norway was at this time in history not a well educatied country. But anyway this have never happend,It woud have been one of the major cases in Norwegian war history and ther are no surces on this.
Thanks
Martin

Hi Martin,

this whole thread is based on a book about Nazis building UFOs and living in an underground bunker which doubles as a time machine. While anything is possible, I think it would be fair to say that such a premise on a forum dedicated to history needs a strong convergence of evidence to support such claims. The absence of evidence to support these claims would suggest that a discerning reader might wish to question the entire basis for the thesis Simon puts forward in this thread.

All the best,

Zeb

[utsola]

Hey Zeb
Norway was occupied by Germany, and many Norwegian worked for the Germans, then mainly to build defenses (Festnung Norwegen). Norway had a very easy occupation if we see this in a European context. Big issues in Norway is that a policeman was executed when he refused to arrest Jews, it was also other horror to the warning the population. But the scientists from Norway was executed is not possible. It will/wood have been the major case in Norwegian war History. So this sources are not reliable, but this is interesting subject so lat us not stick to this small detail, Dos anybody know if there are other buildings/tunnels like this in Germaney/Polen ?
Best regards
Martin

[Zebedee]

Hi Martin,

I'm pretty certain too that 120 nuclear scientists of Scandinavian origin were not executed. I'm also pretty certain that the 'UFO testing circle' is actually the base of a water cooling tower. Asking for evidence to support claims as extravagant as those made in this thread is more than reasonable - the smaller details are added in to make the bigger claims seem more palatable. If the smaller, more precise details are incorrect, what hope is there that the 'bigger' story is true?

There are many buildings similar to the base of the water cooling tower known from throughout the former Grossreich. I posted a picture of one above. There are also many tunnels known, if not yet located - such as the one where the SS rings were supposedly kept upon their bearer's death.

I shall leave this thread here,

All the best,

Zeb

[utsola]

Dear Zeb and all
This is an interesting aria, I did not know that this aria was that interesting. I have a "summer" flat in Bystryca Klodzka. This is in very small distance form Ludwikowice, and probarly other interesting objects. Living in Norway myself this flat is empty more and less 11 months yearly, so if someone is interested it can been borrowed for free, but they have to scare info. Just lett me know
Best regards
Martin


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wka4UyZCgb4

[paolosilv]

Kammler was probably captured by the American Third Army, because so much information about him is classified. The Nazis were working on explosive devices and advanced aviation interference technology in Prague and Ohrdruf-Buchenwald area, where they were also working on tunnels, including an underground Headquarters.

Originals written is named of indy in that ‘Mindener report it to the office group C: “Information about details could give: De. Ing. Kammler, Eirenschmalz, Floto,… “. Has …Wieso indicated Kammler there? The report was composed 1 1/2 years after end of the war

1. Kammler lasted (?) until middle 1946 whereby he was active essentially in the area of Prague. He stayed several times still in Switzerland. End of 1946 was immersed in activity and went it unrecognized in Czechoslovakia under an incorrect name under which he died 1972 and was buried nameless. Kammler lived in a Czech hideout, at the location of a former education school of the Air Force. It clearly was identified at this time of still living time witness and was supervised by the Czech secret service for a long time.
Zero Point (http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~gerbrehm/ ... rkraft.htm) Sorry for the poor translation.

Nick Cook wrote the book, Zero Point, but it seems to have some conspiracy theory stuff in it.