German river shipping on Eastern Front

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TheMarcksPlan
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German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 26 Jun 2021 05:45

By October '41, after Odessa fell, Germany was convoying Ostheer supplies from Romania to Ochakiv at the Dniepr's mouth (noted in Stopped at Stalingrad by Hayward). Hayward doesn't discuss the means of forwarding beyond Ochakiv.

Were the Germans already shipping via the Dniepr towards Zaporozhe? If they weren't then, were they doing so later?

Where in the archives could I look further? I.e. was river shipping controlled by KM, Heer, OKW's Transport Chef?
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"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942

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TheMarcksPlan
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Re: German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 26 Jun 2021 07:04

...I realize that, because most Soviet rivers run north-south, this isn't a big issue everywhere. On the Dnieper it could have been: moving supplies upriver from Ochakiv towards the front around Dnepro/Zaporozhe and downriver from Kiev to the same points. Especially true given how critical the Dniepr bridges were.
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"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942

GregSingh
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Re: German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by GregSingh » 26 Jun 2021 09:55

War Diary of Admiral, Black Sea has some info about steamers running between Ochakov and Nikolaiev (on Southern Bug river) in late 1941.
Supplies delivery from Ochakov to Kherson and Saporoshie is also reported (by "transport group of 1st Special Duties Flotilla" - naval ferry barges No. 125, 128, 133 and 134) in 1942.

Good thing is these Diaries were translated to English by United States Navy, just Google for them. German version should be on John's server.
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TheMarcksPlan
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Re: German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 28 Jun 2021 10:38

GregSingh wrote:
26 Jun 2021 09:55
War Diary of Admiral, Black Sea has some info about steamers running between Ochakov and Nikolaiev (on Southern Bug river) in late 1941.
Supplies delivery from Ochakov to Kherson and Saporoshie is also reported (by "transport group of 1st Special Duties Flotilla" - naval ferry barges No. 125, 128, 133 and 134) in 1942.

Good thing is these Diaries were translated to English by United States Navy, just Google for them. German version should be on John's server.
Thanks, Greg.

An amateur's question - it seems I have to visit the physical archives to view the files (whose location/existence I'd have been ignorant of otherwise). Is that right? There's no way I can see them while sitting wherever I want?
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"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942

Larry D.
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Re: German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by Larry D. » 28 Jun 2021 22:47

Have you checked this? It's VERY detailed and taken almost entirely from the Kriegsmarine documentation.

Meister, Jürg, Der Seekrieg in den osteuropäischen Gewässern 1941-45. München, 1958).

L.

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Re: German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 29 Jun 2021 04:27

Larry D. wrote:
28 Jun 2021 22:47
Have you checked this? It's VERY detailed and taken almost entirely from the Kriegsmarine documentation.

Meister, Jürg, Der Seekrieg in den osteuropäischen Gewässern 1941-45. München, 1958).

L.
Thanks. Looks like a great book.
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"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942

GregSingh
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Re: German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by GregSingh » 30 Jun 2021 03:22

it seems I have to visit the physical archives to view the files
When I Google it, it shows most of it available for free download...
The more you let yourself to go, the less others will let you to go.
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TheMarcksPlan
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Re: German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 30 Jun 2021 03:35

GregSingh wrote:
30 Jun 2021 03:22
it seems I have to visit the physical archives to view the files
When I Google it, it shows most of it available for free download...
Ach ja. I was looking at the government websites but it's on archive.org. https://archive.org/details/wardiaryofadmira41943germ

Thanks a ton, Greg.
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"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942

Sid Guttridge
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Re: German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by Sid Guttridge » 30 Jun 2021 06:39

Hi TMP,

I can't answer your question.

However, much of Axis Black Sea shipping was carried by the Romanians. They, for example, evacuated their own troops from the Crimea in 1944. The final chapter of Third Axis, Fourth Ally by Axworthy has some details of Romania shipping activities and contains a couple of maps showing the sequential extension of the convoy system and coastal minefields in the Black Sea.

The Germans used a lot of riverine armed ferry barges in the coastal Black Sea. I recently started a thread on the German use of Bulgarian shipyards to build some 15,000 tons of these vessels during the war: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=255916&p=2326276&hi ... s#p2326276

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: German river shipping on Eastern Front

Post by sailorsam » 20 Jul 2021 21:21

interesting and underdiscussed topic.

LOGISTICS!!!

I understand the Kriegsmarine patrolled a lot of these rivers with Schnellboots.
I'm sure there was some piracy, smuggling and even sabotage going on.
lots of untold stories!
Saint Peter, let these men enter Heaven; they served their time in hell.

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