British Manpower shortages by the end of WW2

Discussions on the economic history of the nations taking part in WW2, from the recovery after the depression until the economy at war.
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Sheldrake
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Re: British Manpower shortages by the end of WW2

Post by Sheldrake » 15 Jun 2021 14:40

Von Schadewald wrote:
15 Jun 2021 12:08
It would have been v bad for late-war British morale if they had drawn Omaha Beach, and had lost the 1000 men manpower that the Americans did.
That looks like Dieppe rather than Omaha or Sword Beach

Von Schadewald
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Re: British Manpower shortages by the end of WW2

Post by Von Schadewald » 15 Jun 2021 14:44

The loss to the British genetic gene pool caused by the 1 million Victorian-Edwardian Man dead of WW1, and the decimation of the 'Best of British' at the Somme in particular, had ramifications in the next generation of smaller, weaker British soldiers of WW2, & is felt to this day.

As can be seen by this thin, bespectacled little elite British soldier landing at D Day, the British really were reaching their fighting man limits by 1944
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Sheldrake
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Re: British Manpower shortages by the end of WW2

Post by Sheldrake » 15 Jun 2021 15:54

Von Schadewald wrote:
15 Jun 2021 14:44
The loss to the British genetic gene pool caused by the 1 million Victorian-Edwardian Man dead of WW1, and the decimation of the 'Best of British' at the Somme in particular, had ramifications in the next generation of smaller, weaker British soldiers of WW2, & is felt to this day.

As can be seen by this thin, bespectacled little elite British soldier landing at D Day, the British really were reaching their fighting man limits by 1944
You are Martin van Crefeld and I claim my £5.

I hear what you say., but with the greatest of respects that is utter tripe...

If WW1 eroded British fighting manpower, where did that leave Germany's master race which lost twice as many?

Underestimate small or bespectacled Britons at your peril...
Slide12.JPG
There is a sad story concerning a small bespectacled officer who landed on Sword Beach on D Day. Ken Davenport was a 30 year old second lieutenant in the 5th Battalion the Kings Regiment, which were the 5th Army Beach Group on Sword beach. The photo in Perter Liddle's "D Day by Those Who Were There" indeed shows a balding bespectacled figure. It might even have been him in the photo you posted.

One of his friend's Philip Scarfe was a platoon commander about the same age. He and his men attacked a pill box firing on Sword beach. He was wounded, but he carried on and was shot again and was killed. We buried him above the high watermark. His wife sent her wedding veil to put in his grave. Ken was later the god father to Philip's unborn son born later. I find it hard to stand by his grave at Bayeux without shedding a tear. You don't have to look the part to be a hero.
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Danny l
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Re: British Manpower shortages by the end of WW2

Post by Danny l » 24 Oct 2021 23:09

[/quote That National Archives reference certainly suggests that it went to NW Europe and disbanded in August alongside many of the Beach Group infantry units. Anyone going to Kew in the near future? [/quote]

Hi,
7th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment was not in 4 Beach Group.

Some information below on 4 Beach Group and 7th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment

Regards

Danny


4 Beach Group
In March 1944 4 Beach Group returned to the UK from the Mediterranean. For Operation Overlord 4 Beach Group was placed under the command 1st Corps but on landing, on the 7th June, reverted immediately under command 102 Beach Sub-Area.

Order of Battle - June 1944
HQ 4 Beach Group
84 Pnr Coy
73 Pnr Coy
239 Pnr Coy
6 ME Sec Re
213 Fd Coy RE
1013 Port Ops Coy RE
551 GT Coy (1 Pl)
50 GT Coy
82 DID
231 Pet Dep
9 OBD
27 Beach Rec Sec
Also Under Command
61 First Class Fire Bd, PC

There are four Officers listed on HQ 4 Beach Group Field Return of Officers form.
A/Lt Col Chambers P.J, Border Regiment, Comd
T/Major Macfarlane C.R.G, KOSB, DAQMG
T/Capt Hitchcock R.H.H., P.C., Adjt
T/Capt Sole E.A.S, Recce Regt, Staff Capt

Between April and June 1944 the following units were withdrawn from the Orbat 4 Beach Group.
9 Beach Sigs Sec
3 F.D.S.
Det 232 Provost Coy


7th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment

In June 1944 the Battalion was located at Sanderstead, Surrey, and part of 162 Infantry Brigade.

4th July. “7 E Yorks informed this HQ (162 Inf Bde) that they have received orders to move to marshalling area on 6 Jul”.

6th July. “7 E Yorks moved to marshalling area near Haywards Heath. Cease to be under comd of this HQ (162 Inf Bde) on leaving the UK.”

9th July. The Battalion was at Newhaven and at 17.30 “Bn embarked on LCIs No.s 378, 126 and U.S. 16.”

11th July. Due to rough weather the convoy did not sail until today. “07.30. Convoy sailed again from Newhaven.
21.30. Bn disembarked in Normandy on King Beach and moved to Assembly Area East at Tierceville 912814”

12th July The “Bn moved in TCVs to concentration area at Manvieux (825860”.

13th July “Secret message from 11 L of C Area placing Bn under command of 101 Beach Sub-Area.
Suggested role of Bn : First, to prepare to take over from 1 Bucks & 5 Kings in view of possibility of withdrawal of these Bns in te near future. Second, to provide Coys in rotation for employment at Caen”

15th July. The Battalion moved to the Ouistreham area and from the 15th to 28th July the Battalion was split up and operating between Ouistreham and Port en Besin.

25th July. “Immediate message from 11 L of C Area, to 101 Beach Sub-Area ordering concentration of Bn in Ouistreham to be completed by 18.00 hrs 28 Jul 44.
“War dogs and handlers will not rpt not move”.

29th July. Now located at Lion sur Mer soldiers of the Battalion start to be posted out to other units and Corps Reception Camps.

31st August. “Disbandment of Unit completed. Finis.”

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Re: British Manpower shortages by the end of WW2

Post by Richard Anderson » 25 Oct 2021 00:43

Danny l wrote:
24 Oct 2021 23:09
7th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment was not in 4 Beach Group.

Some information below on 4 Beach Group and 7th Bn East Yorkshire Regiment

Regards

Danny
Thanks for clearing that up finally Danny. Cheers!
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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