East Prussia january 1945

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Sgt Joch
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by Sgt Joch » 09 Aug 2019 22:10

correct jan. 15, I mistyped. That map is perfect, exactly what I was looking for! Thanks.

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I have questions
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by I have questions » 11 Aug 2019 02:24

Sgt Joch wrote:
09 Aug 2019 22:10
correct jan. 15, I mistyped. That map is perfect, exactly what I was looking for! Thanks.
there might be some more information in "The History of Panzerkorps Großdeutschland, volume III", that series covers the operations of all GD units in great detail. :welcome:

otis68
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by otis68 » 23 May 2020 23:38

Good afternoon. I am from Rossi and write on this forum through a translator. On this, I apologize for my English. I am very interested in data on the armor of trains that were on the territory of East Prussia from 1.12.1944 to 30.01.1945. On this forum mention armored trains number 32, 68A, 30.76, 72B. But I have data that at the time of the encirclement of Konigsberg on January 21 the last train that accompanied the armored train 601 left the station for Germany. According to the data, this last train took away the sapper part( maybe the builders of Todt). According to other sources, the train was one and there was a civilian "Koch train"( there is a mention in the memoirs of Von Lash). So was there an armored train with this number on the territory of East Prussia

adamb
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by adamb » 13 Apr 2021 21:13

Art wrote:
26 Jul 2018 21:22

So total well above 1500 tanks, assault guns and self-propelled guns operational or in repair. Of them 1 HG and Brandenburg divisions were transferred to Poland before being involved in any action, that is 88 AFV on hand plus 21 in transfer. I have only a vague idea if any about identity and location of some smaller units. What were exactly Pz.Jg.Kp 1233 or Stu.G.Abt. 1006(L), for example? Returning to the official Soviet history of WWII: the volume 10 estimated 700 tanks, SP and assault guns with German forces in Prussia. Those numbers became almost canonical but they are a gross underestimate as demonstrated above. Funny considering a common idea that Soviet histories always inflated German numbers.
Pz.Jg.Kp 1233 appears on the map of XXIII Army Corps in January under 23.Inf.Div. however, in the chronicle of this division or documents from the germandocsinrussia website it no longer appears later!

Image

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donwhite
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by donwhite » 14 Apr 2021 07:31

Hello Adam,

That fills in a gap nicely about where Pz.Jg.Kp. 1233 was deployed/positioned. Can I ask what is the date in January for the map you have posted? Better still would it be possible for you to post a link to the specific map file in question?

Many thanks

adamb
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by adamb » 14 Apr 2021 12:31

Hello.
Yes I will provide when I get home. I have much more information. It is very puzzling why there is no literature describing the warfare in West Prussia (between the line - Elblag - Zalewo - Nidzica to the Vistula border)! The fighting in East Prussia is quite well described. I hope to be the first to publish a paper on this subject.
I am particularly interested in the 23rd Inf. Div. which at that time had a Tiger tank (Pz.VII) and Nashorn tank destroyers at its disposal. I will create a new thread on the forum, I count on help because I have many questions. Greetings

adamb
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by adamb » 14 Apr 2021 12:44

Some more information about Pz.Jg.Kp.1233:
"Similar to the 197. I.D. the 299. I.D. was wiped out on the Eastern Front in the summer of 1944. Stu.G.Abt. 1299 was waiting in Mielau for its StuGs at the time and was renamed to Stu.G.Abt. 1233 for the 196. I.D. instead. And to make matters even more complicated, the 196. I.D. was incorporated into the 131. I.D. in Sep/Oct 1944."
and
"Panzerjäger-Abt. 299 since 1. 4. 1940; on 1. 9. 1940 reinforced by a 2nd Pz.Jg.Kp. from I4th/IK 414 (209th II)) and on 1. 3. 1941 by a 3rd Kp. from 3rd/Pz.Jg.Abt. 182 (82nd ID); 26. 10. 1943 disbanded except for a Div.Pz.Jg.Kp. 299 (from l. Kp.); 12. 5. 1944 reestablished with I. Pz.Jg.Kp., 3. Fla-Kp. and Sturmgesch.Abt. 1299; Sturmgesch.Abt. 1299, which was in training at Mielau, was given the number 1233. as the Abt. 200 was broken up in the fighting at Hgr.Mitte. Already on 21. 7. 1944 it was re-established from the remnants of the 337th, 57th, 110th, 267th and 260th ID; Sturmgesch.Abt. 1337 formed the 2nd Kp., the 16th (Geb.Fla) Kp./Kav.Rgt. Süd the 3rd Kp.
U: 299th Inf.Div. Korps-Abt. "G" (21. 7. 1944): Lithuania 299th Inf.Div. again since 1. 9. 1944
E: 9 Büdingen, Müldheim/Thür., WK IX"

Ikel44
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by Ikel44 » 28 May 2021 16:47

Hi.
2,5 years later and I think it's good time to resolve one intresting thing. What's happened with panzers from 5 panzer-division. In document from 11.01 in 3 PzAOK's Tagesmeldung( Ger.Doc.iRus) we can find that division had 36 panzers (IV.,V.) operational https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/4 so why in above posts are info's that 5 Pz Div had operational : 47Pz V + 33 Pz IV. Why is so such discrepancy? In another source for example pritt buttar in battleground in prussia state that 5th panzer had about 65 tanks operationala and another dozens in repairs. What is the source of that info and why in every military forum about II world world is stated that 5pz divison is much stronger than 7pz divison. By the way 36 operational tanks isn't so big amount.

FORBIN Yves
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by FORBIN Yves » 29 May 2021 16:54

Numbers provided by what member ?
And with your link i can't access to the files a problem

And 5 Pz Div can't have 47Pz V + 33 Pz IV operationals she have a total of 72... to 01/01/1945
https://blog.sturmpanzer.com/online-doc ... desarchiv/

And she is a little better than the 7th Pz Div

Art
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by Art » 29 May 2021 21:38

5 Panzer Division suffered a lot during the operation Schneesocke/Winterreise in early January 1945, hence a decline in the tank strength, I guess.

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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by Art » 31 May 2021 09:33

These a numbers for the 5 Panzer Division as of 1/2 January 1945 (From a report on situation with armor-piercing weapons of the 4 Army, NARA T312 R244)
5 PzD.jpg
So total 31 Pz IV, 40 Pz V, 26 assaults guns and tank destroyers operational.
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Art
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by Art » 08 Jul 2021 10:58

For comparison, status of the same division (5 PzD) as of 5/6 January 1945:
0154.jpg
So 11 vehicles were now complete write-offs, and many more (76) were in need of serious repair. That was all a result of a combat which lasted barely longer than 24 hours (from early hours of 4 January until morning of 5 January).
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gargulec
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by gargulec » 29 Jul 2021 19:58

Hey . I am interested in the warfare front in Mazury. Specifically in the area of Rastenburg-Barten-Roosel-Bartenstein 1945 January-February. I am collecting material for publication. Probably fought here Belarusian 3Front - 2nd and 31st Guards Army. I'm looking for a map and daily reports, Can anyone help?

FORBIN Yves
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by FORBIN Yves » 12 Oct 2021 17:58

Fallschirm-Panzerkorps Hermann Göring gliederung 01/01/1945

With for specificity the two Divisions don't have a JagdPanzer Bn the Corps have one and unusual big Flak Rgt to 4 Bns with many guns
PZK HG.JPG
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donwhite
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Re: East Prussia january 1945

Post by donwhite » 12 Oct 2021 23:52

Hello FORBIN Yves,

See further discussions in Kamen Nevenkin's 'Fire Brigades' book and also Dr. Leo Neihorster's World War II Armed Forces website on the expansion of the HG Panzer Division into a Panzerkorps.

http://niehorster.org/011_germany/45/45_pzk-hg.html

May I ask the source for your posted document please.

Cheers

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