1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
wirklich
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by wirklich » 02 Apr 2022 15:56

It was the end of the worst conflict the world has ever known.
These and the other the film footage from the end of the war are historically significant.
What did ordinary people that lived through it have to say? These would be very candid conversations between people that had no idea anyone would ever know what they said. The complete opposite of an interview by a journalist that is asking leading questions.
This was more than just the routine day-to-day events during the war. It was over and they were still alive.
It would be just as significant if not more than than They Shall Not Grow Old.

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1002547
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1002545

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 08 May 2022 05:05

77 years after the filming of LGG, unfortunately I have not found more information about it, only a drawing and pixel art
Cheers

drawing by Ina Wege
Image

pixel art
Image

bentleyhugh
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by bentleyhugh » 18 May 2022 06:46

CarlosXander wrote:
19 Feb 2022 16:53
my theory I keep insisting that in this part of the filming it is LGG with her boyfriend/husband or lover, it is her for me since she has her hair tied, it is true that it is not the clothes that we see later but it is clear that the clothes that alarece in the row is not hers and apart from the older woman she is the only woman who appears in the group who were later beaten and killed, it is my theory
Image
Image
Image


Yes, this is it. LGG was trying to look like a male and it was known that retreating German forces would do this to hide women from view for a host of reasons. To take it a step further the group they were marching with was stopped by the Czechs to look for SS. The small group of SS officers trying to blend into this group made a run for it and there was a pursuit, shoot out, and maybe even hostages taken. These details were known and is was also known that a small group of SS broke off from a larger column trying to flee. These are in Czech police reports. I believe the Germans off camera were what was left of this group. They prob surrendered or made it to an American unit. LGG had injuries that look like a rifle butt hit her, so I think she was not killed intentionally but let go. To positively identify her it will be necessary to identify someone in close proximity to her that day and work backwards.

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Hans1906
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hans1906 » 18 May 2022 12:49

If you write about it long enough, then all these assumptions become self-aware, and that's exactly the problem.

Ignorance, guesswork, speculation, where will it all end..? :?


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

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Hoover
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hoover » 25 Jun 2022 13:43

No. That is not her. Any other theories?

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 12 Jul 2022 00:20

greetings forums
the digital magazine "allnewspress" uploads a note of LGG based on the investigation of the forum, which is the note that was uploaded in February of this year in the German newspaper "Stern" little by little its story is being known in the media

here I leave the note in English
https://allnewspress.com/lost-german-gi ... his-woman/

Cheers

wirklich
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by wirklich » 13 Jul 2022 19:22

It is good to see more people are interested in this topic than just AHF. It would be better if writers would put some effort into doing some research so they could write a better article.

1. The woman does not hold a deck of cards.
2. The trousers are not enormous. The waist and length of the trousers fit her. The waist is let out all the way and she does not need to use the braces to hold them up. The shirt fits. What she wears fits her as well as the uniforms of most of the soldiers that are seen.
Unless she was bigger than the average woman it would have been hard to find clothes that fit while out in the field. Chances that she got these clothes off a dead body, or someone had spare trousers that fit are not very good. They are hers or were given to her before the soldiers left their barracks. A woman at 4:59 is dressed in a similar way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSIk7yUHzrQ
3. At the end she and the soldier next to her appear to be listening to the soldier in front of them. She never looks and smiles at the cameraman.
4. While it was not said in this article, some have said that someone gave her the cloth/handkerchief. The cloth she held to her face was hers. Why would it not be? You can see many civilians and soldiers with handkerchiefs. They were very common.
She had the presence of mind to start out with money, what looks like a red DAF book with a white ID card/paper or photograph sticking out 5 mm out of the top of the book she held. So why would she not have a handkerchief/cloth too?
5. Civilian or military? Civilians carried DAF books, soldiers did not. She has no Erkennungsmarke or Soldbuch that can be seen. Some soldiers can be seen with an EK around their necks and/or a Soldbuch in their jacket pockets in parts of the 4 different USHMM film footages. Even the dead ones.
6. How could they tell someone was in the SS. Some of the dead and dying soldiers wear an EK that can be seen. Chances are they still carry a Soldbuch. Both may tell if they were SS.

What I see is a woman that was full of fear, desperation, humiliation and finally relief.

Someday someone like Peter Jackson will become interested in this topic enough to have forensic lip readers watch the film footage and reveal what people had to say at the end of the war.

While walking on the road the woman opens her mouth three times. Was she about to speak? While sitting in the ditch she looks at and smiles at the German soldier in front of her and opens her mouth. Not the cameraman. Did she say something? Nobody knows the answers to those questions yet.
It was the end of the worst conflict the world has ever known, and they were still alive. What these people had to say would be just as significant if not more than the conversations in Peter Jackson's They shall not grow old.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/film ... -1.3658405
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1002547
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1002545

Here is another film clip from the end of the war. At 5:55 American officers are talking to German officers. There is a jeep with a .50 caliber MG mounted on it. American soldiers are sitting in it. A soldier reaches up and dips the MG barrel at the German officers. An American officer sees this and shouts at the soldier. It would be interesting to know all of what was said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSIk7yUHzrQ

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 14 Jul 2022 01:36

dear wirklich very good point of view
I want to complement in one of the points is "she opens her mouth three times. Was she about to speak?" It is possible that with the blow she received on her left face, she finds it difficult to breathe since it can affect part of the nose or that she is agitated by the event already seen
Another point is that Peter Jackson is more of a fan of the First World War, he has restored several tapes from that time and until recently he was one of the investors of the Wingnut Wings brand of scale models, I don't think he is interested in the history of LGG, I dreamed that maybe Steven Spielberg could make a movie or something about LGG since he is the owner of the original filming but I don't believe either because of the supposed identities of LGG (that she is an SS)
but it is possible that the Germans make something of it, since little by little they make movies related to the second war showing another point of view, perhaps starting with the very good fictional story of Mr. Diego Rodríguez Peregrin in his blog Aerial Phenomena, but as There isn't much of LGG I think it would be difficult for something to be done... not impossible
Cheers

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Hans1906
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hans1906 » 14 Jul 2022 16:33

I don't see anything like that, I see my grandmother and her little daughter fleeing from the Czech hordes who crushed everything German, killed, shot, hung them from a tree, doused them with petrol and burned them alive.

In the villages, the Germans were simply beaten to death, all of them, with a club, with a piece of wood, or just kicked to death with their own feet, it was exactly like that.

However you could take another human being from this life to the afterlife.


In later years I often talked to refugees from the Sudetenland, very often.
The Germans were simply massacred, beaten to death, shot, burned, or hung up by their feet, left to the fire, the revenge at that time was endless.

It was war, there were no rules...

Mother and daughter were lucky, nothing happend to them, a unit of Waffen-SS soldiers, still in the control of their weapons, they took care about the women, and their childen. On a train to Bavaria.

I wish, I was able to write more about it, it's black hole, the survivors deny it, the rest is silence.

When mothers and children are beaten to death, there is no third generation, only a few survivors.


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

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Hans1906
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hans1906 » 14 Jul 2022 18:05

Was it right to slaughter the Sudeten Germans like cattle, out of revenge, pure retribution, I don't know, there are no answers...

1945: Eine Geschichte


Just the first 5 minutes the film is pure "Scheisse", sorry.


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

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Hans1906
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hans1906 » 14 Jul 2022 18:34

"Heimat" is the term, what we all love, no Nazis, no war, it is very simple, the wide open skies, the silence, there is no hate, no love, it is just like it is...

Hannes Wader - Gut wieder hier zu sein - Live 1984



Das ist Heimat.


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

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wm
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by wm » 15 Jul 2022 00:17

Hans1906 wrote:
14 Jul 2022 16:33
I wish, I was able to write more about it, it's black hole, the survivors deny it, the rest is silence.
Actually many Poles who were there (mostly as forced laborers) wrote about the massacres of the Sudeten Germans, and some Russians did that too in their books.

ignacioosacar1
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by ignacioosacar1 » 15 Jul 2022 22:58

Dear Forum

The Czech film " I served the King of England " deals with the Sudeten issue also. By the way, a very good film

Cheers !

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Hans1906
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hans1906 » 18 Jul 2022 12:14

Hi ignacioosacar1,

the 2006 movie "I Served the King of England" was not known to me, thank you very much for your mention.

I Served the King of England https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Served_ ... and_(film)

I'd love to watch this movie as soon as I can...

My mother Ingrid always denied her memories about the escape, was never able to tell about it, self-protection.


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

wirklich
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by wirklich » 19 Jul 2022 17:54

It is good to see there is still interest in the events that Captain Haglund and his crew filmed.
There are still many unanswered questions about what happened to the dead/dying German soldiers and the woman.
Almost none of the dead/dying German soldiers show severe penetrating/nonpenetrating or other blunt force trauma wounds to the head and especially the face. They do not show the typical severe head/facial wounds that civilians show when they have been beaten by wood clubs or metal pipes.
1.There is film footage that shows civilians being beaten and killed with wood clubs/metal pipe in Eastern Europe. They show severe head/facial injuries. <URL url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F-3zY9 ... 9AIKg</URL
2.The LW soldier at 1:14:02:10 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844 has an injury to his lower lip on the left side of his mouth but he cannot get up. One of the dead soldiers lying face down in a ditch has trauma to the back of his head and the left side of his head and may show a gunshot entrance/exit. 1:15:31:16 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844
3. The man (it is unknown if he was a soldier or even German) with the red DAF book shows severe trauma to the left side of his head. 1:18:17:19 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844
4.The dead soldier at 1:15:51:10 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844 and the unknown dead man not in uniform at 1:38:49:00 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536 show gun shots to the head.
5. The position of the 1 dead and 1 dying German soldiers on their backs lying across the packed dirt road at 1:14:55:10 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844 and 1:37:58:26 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536 are several feet away from the pool of blood. The blood is pooled across the road with blood trails towards the bodies. It looks like the dead soldier closest to the pooled blood has a smeared blood trail from the pooled blood to the right side of the body as if it slid across the road. Blood has been expelled from his mouth and blood has run down his left sleeve covering his hand and dripping on the ground. This happened after he hit the ground.
His Erkennungsmarke can be seen above the film crew's chalkboard. It looks like it has been broken in half. When did this happen? Did it identify him as SS? Was it someone's souvenir? 1:14:32:06 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844
The soldier that was still alive has dirt smeared on both sides of his face, nose and there is an abrasion on his chin. His mouth is bloody. There is dirt on the front of his jacket and making him look like he slid face down on the road. Blood has run away from his body on the right side. His EK is visible below his neck.
Both bodies are rotated to the left. Both have their right arm next to their body and the left arm extended away from their body. The legs and feet on both bodies are rotated to the left. They look like they both hit the ground and rolled onto their backs. They were on their backs when the blood was expelled out of their mouths, they were not turned over by the film crew. 2 different views of the bodies. 1:37:49:12
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536 1:37:34:28 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536
What happened? They both look like they may have been hit by a vehicle.
Germans have been executed and run over in the Prague district. https://www.spiegel.de/international/eu ... 98060.html
6. The soldier that is at the feet of the other 2 soldiers lying across the road was alive and in great pain. He could only move his head and right shoulder. His right arm appears to be broken as he tries to lift it. There are no injuries or blood that shows except for a shadow line on his neck 100mm below his left ear. His injuries are so severe he cannot get up. The soldier that has his feet on his head does not move.
These men have no head/facial wounds that you would expect someone to have that has been attacked by a mob.
7. Gunshots are not easy to see on clothes. Gunshot wounds that kill do not always bleed. 3:39 4:44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNIosjt8S80
8. The German soldier lying on his back at 1:38:55:20 shows no visible injuries but is in great pain. At 1:39:06:03 he tries but is unable to stand up. https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536
9. The questions continue for the rest of the dead/dying German soldiers.
10. Were the German soldiers attacked by a mob shot and beaten to death? Their heads and faces don't look like the civilians that were attacked by mobs. The unknown man with the red DAF book does. Their clothes have not been ripped off their bodies except for the unknown man with the red DAF book. The German soldiers that are still alive are injured so severely they cannot get up. Were some of them run over? Were they trying to get away from the Americans and were shot? Two do show definite gunshots to the head. From the amount of damage, it was most likely rifle fire.
11. Several of the German soldiers have white cloths by their bodies. Coincidence or a sign of surrender? White cloth can be seen used as a sign of surrender in parts of the other film footage.
12. The boots in the field. The scattered personal effects (flashlight) food. And the dead man. Signs of a struggle? Why were his boots off? Many soldiers can be seen waking barefoot carrying their boots. https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536 1:40:02:08
13. How do you keep track of all the jeeps? Some have a cable cutter on the front bumper. The jeep at 1:40:28:23 passing the young Dead German is not the same jeep that is seen with the Germans being carried away on. The first one does not have a cable cutter. The second on does have cable cutter mounted on the front bumper. 1:40:29:19 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536
14. Is it an Emergency Medical Tag? The German soldier on the hood of the jeep looks like he may have an EMT next to the right side of his face.
Why would they tie one on him if he was not alive? They would tie one to a dead American, but would they tie one to a dead German? 1:40:30:24 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536 https://www.med-dept.com/articles/the-w ... 0personnel.
15. The German soldier lying on his left side in the ditch 1:17:04:13 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844 and again at 1:39:06:03 https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003536 is injured so severely that he cannot get up and just shakes his head. The fingers on his right hand appear to have abrasions on them. He has no blood on his face but appears to have a small abrasion above his right eye and on his right check. How was he injured so severely he cannot get up?
16. How did they get to where they were? Why were there so many in the ditch? Were they walking/running on the road when they were attacked? Were they running across the open field towards the road when they were attacked? Did they try to hide in the ditch when they were attacked? Did they try to surrender? Is that the reason so many white cloths are seen? Were they nothing more than handkerchiefs/rags or small bags to carry food in?
17. Was Captain Haglund and his film crew the only American soldiers at some of these scenes? No armed civilians, or American soldiers are seen by the bodies.
18. Someone asked how the soldiers that had been attacked could still have their glasses on. Because they were made like this. https://www.1944militaria.com/Original_ ... rildnt.htm
19. You can do the proofreading.

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