ID of French artillery piece

[Franzl Rider]

I found a series of pictures of an French horse drawn artillery battery, which was destroyed by German fire. There are no craters of shells so it is possible that it was strafed by aeroplanes. The human bodies where allready taken away. From expired ebay.

My question is whether the canon is a 155mm C Modele 1917 Schneider or a 220mm TR Modeles 1916 Schneider. I think the first one but I am not sure. Can anyone give me the answer?

[Franzl Rider]

second picture

[The Edge]

It's 155mm model.

[C.GILLONO]

As The Edge wrote, 155mm.
The US Army used a modernized version in 1943 in the MTO while waiting for the delivery of 155 Howitzer M1 (and French troops too up to 1945).

[Pachy]

My question is whether the canon is a 155mm C Modele 1917 Schneider or a 220mm TR Modeles 1916 Schneider. I think the first one but I am not sure. Can anyone give me the answer?

They are quite easy to tell, only the 155 has the curved shield.

[ain92]

Hello all.
Here's a photo of artillery piece labeled as French one from an expired eBay auction. It seems to be damaged (note the absence of breech-block and a protruded coil spring). What can you say, colleagues?
Thanks in advance.

[karlik]

It is not british 4,5-inch howitzer?

[ain92]

It is not british 4,5-inch howitzer?

Good morning, karlik.
I don't think so — both BL 4.5-inch and 5.5-inch have no gunshields.

[Manuferey]

I agree with karlik: British 4.5 in. howitzer.

We're not talking about the BL 4.5 in. gun but the QF Ordnance 4.5 in. howitzer Mk 2 on Carriage Mk1P.

Emmanuel

[ain92]

I agree with karlik: British 4.5 in. howitzer.

We're not talking about the BL 4.5 in. gun but the QF Ordnance 4.5 in. howitzer Mk 2 on Carriage Mk1P.

Emmanuel

Hello, Emmanuel.
Well, I forgot that there was such a modification with pleumatic wheels. =) Although on most photos the wheel disks of Mark I P are similar to the ones of ZIS-5 truck, it seems that you both are right.

What do you think, is the howitzer on the background of the same type?

[ain92]

Nobody for the last question? If so, I'll post a more enigmatic picture. I think the photo was made during the parade of the Armée secrète in Saint-Étienne on 25 August 1944.

The artillery piece towed by a Berliet GDRAG seems to be an improvisation made for anti-tank purposes from a tipping part of some navy, coastal or AA gun of appr. 75-mm calibre (a bit similar to late modification of Cannone da 75/46, but not an exact fit) and a carriage of some WWI heavy field artillery piece (neither 105 L Mle 1913 or 155 C Mle 1917).

[Manuferey]

Hi Ilya,

I’ve been scratching my head on this one for quite a while since I saw this picture on the Net.

I think that it could be a 5 cm KwK gun mounted sideways on an existing carriage as you mentioned but modified with a new shield and new wheels.

We have to remember that at St-Etienne there was the French weapon manufacturing facilities of MAS (Manufacture d’Armes de St-Etienne), thus, a know-how to modify weapons.

Emmanuel

[ain92]

Hi Ilya,

I’ve been scratching my head on this one for quite a while since I saw this picture on the Net.

I think that it could be a 5 cm KwK gun mounted sideways on an existing carriage as you mentioned but modified with a new shield and new wheels.

We have to remember that at St-Etienne there was the French weapon manufacturing facilities of MAS (Manufacture d’Armes de St-Etienne), thus, a know-how to modify weapons.

Emmanuel

Hello, Emmanuel.
Have you requested id. on any French forums? I doubt that hydropneumatical recuperator would work correctly if turned sideways, and the weapon also seems to be larger than Kwk 38.
PS
MAS was not artillery but small arms manufacturer, wasn't it?

[Manuferey]

Have you requested id. on any French forums?

Good idea ! I'll do that.

I doubt that hydropneumatical recuperator would work correctly if turned sideways, and the weapon also seems to be larger than Kwk 38.

It all depends on the internal design. I don't know many guns that have short recuperators besides the 5 cm and 7.5 cm KwK guns.

MAS was not artillery but small arms manufacturer, wasn't it?

Yes, but I figure that they may have had the technical staff and hardware (machine shop, welding equipment, ...) to work on bigger guns exceptionnally.

Emmanuel

[jopaerya]

Hello Friends

The wheels look very much like the Russian one's

Regards Jos