Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

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Sid Guttridge
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Sid Guttridge » 14 Jun 2022 19:09

Hi Guys,

Before accepting the tank kill claims above too literally, I would recommend watching the following Youtube videos which are based on Wehrmacht documents and interviews with veterans:

1) "Truth" about "Panzer Aces": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmilK8D0_Y

2) German tank kills: Lying with statistics?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCtQPqU9DtMCheers,

3) Kill Claims vs Losses with Tank Archives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff0vHoEikq0

1) is particularly interesting as the German tank veterans themselves cast doubt on all these post-war compilation lists of tank "aces".

Sid

alcius
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by alcius » 15 Jun 2022 09:35

Feldwebel Johann Muller - apz.abt.502 - 60 panzerkills
muller.png
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alcius
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by alcius » 15 Jun 2022 09:42

Kurt Kirchner - stug.abt.667 - 42 panzerkills
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alcius
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by alcius » 15 Jun 2022 10:54

As for the Feldwebel Schimock, I also did not find anything, I do not know if it is of the pz.abt.503 or of a high unit.
It might not be Feldwebel, or not called Schimock, I have found in the various Zeitung writing errors from the Gothic.
Names have to be interpreted

Alcius

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by alcius » 21 Jun 2022 10:52

I add three panzer aces over 100 kills;

Oberfeldwebel Georg Kolodziejczyk - PzRgt 5 - 120 kills
Unteroffizier Josef Czerny - Pzrgt 3 - 100/120 kills
Oberfeldwebel August Kaminski - SPz.Jg.Abt. 655 - over 100 kills

Alcius

alcius
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by alcius » 21 Jun 2022 10:53

Kolodziejczyk - Pz.Rgt.15 - My error

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 22 Jun 2022 11:44

Giesen never destroyed 111 enemy tanks. He was never a Knight's Cross holder. He should be removed from the Panzer aces list. He fooled a lot of people and I don't like it. Arno Giesen,AKA Arnold Freisen.

Edward L. Hsiao

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 22 Jun 2022 12:06

I mean Friesen not Freisen.

Edward L. Hsiao

Hardigan
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Hardigan » 22 Jun 2022 12:48

Friesen/Giesen will be removed. Alcius, do you have a source for Josef Czerny and Georg Kolodziejczyk? These are very high claims.

alcius
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by alcius » 22 Jun 2022 14:07

josef czerny in this forum
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=255873&p=2325943&h ... y#p2325943

Georg Kolodziejczyk in a closed forum;
textual words;
Alle diese Auszeichungen als Oberfeldwebel und Zugführer in 3./Pz.Rgt. 15 (11. PD), also auf jeden Fall einer der "alten Hasen" !
Soweit, sogut, jetzt kommt's aber:
Im Bundesarchiv findet sich unter MSg 2 / 895 eine Akte (MSg 2 sind Unterlagen aus Privatbesitz, also keine offiziellen Akten aus der Kriegszeit, meistens Berichte von Teilnehmer, auch Abschriften oder Kopien von Gefechtsberichten etc.), die von einem gewissen Walter Rahn erstellt wurde.
Es handelt sich um eine Zusammenstellung über den Einsatz der Pz.Abt. 52 im Juli/August 1943 (diese Abtlg. wurde ja aus der I./PR 15 gebildet und dann im Herbst wieder zur I./PR 15 zurückgebildet).
Es handelt sich um eine Vorlage zu einem DIA-Vortrag, mit einer kurzen Zusammenfassung über den Einsatz der Abteilung plus zwischengeschobenen Vermerken über die während des Vortrags gezeigten DIA's (diese in der Akte allerdings nicht vorhanden)
Zu einem davon dieser Text:
„Dieses DIA zeigt den Ofw. Kolodziejzyk rechts, der nach seinem 120. Panzerabschuß mit dem Ritterkreuz ausgezeichnet wurde, zusammen mit seinem ebenso bewährten Kameraden, dem Fw. Ruland“
Haben wir hier tatsächlich ein neues Panzer-Ass gefunden
Das Ritterkreuz hat Kolod... ja erst 1945 bekommen, wenn er nu' aber so lange in der Kampfstaffel des Pz.Rgt. 15 im Einsatz war, inkl. Einsatz mit dem Panther, dann kann das ja gut hinkommen.
Nur..., offiziell ist das ja nun nicht - andererseits scheint dieser Herr Rahn irgendwie mit den Veteranen zu tun gehabt haben, bzw. wahrscheinlich auch selbst Mitglied der Abteilung...

alcius
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by alcius » 22 Jun 2022 14:09

august kaminnski on a Brasilian site " Sala de Guerra" translate in English:
Mertenheim Born in East Prussia (just five miles from where Hitler build his headquarters in Rastenburg), Kaminski helped the local blacksmith in the gaps in school. When he finished his studies he became an apprentice baker, passing the final exam in order to practice the profession in 1933. However, in April 1934 he was drafted into the new Reichsarbeitsdienst (Reich Labor Service), to perform six months of work in public works infrastructure in Germany. In November, he enlisted in the army, rising to the 1st Battalion Tank Busters.

In March 1938, Kaminski took part in the occupation of Austria, in September and also participated in the occupation of the Sudetenland. On 16 March 1939, Germany occupied the rest of Czechoslovakia (Bohemia and Moravia), taking over the defensive positions east of the country, on the border with Poland. On Aug. 26, the unit took position in Frankstadt in Czech-Polish border, and on the morning of September 1 entered the Polish territory, crossing the river and reaching the Vistula Olsa the next day. Kaminski took part in the capture of Krakow, Lvov following up - where he was during the surrender of the Polish Army on Sept. 22.

In May 1940, his unit (equipped with Panzerjager I) was redesignated the 670th tank battalion, and was positioned on the border with Belgium. When you start up the heavy fighting that summer, Kaminski Allies destroyed several armored vehicles for the successful pursuit of the British Expeditionary Force and elements of the French Army, which ended in the isolated beaches of Dunkirk . After an unusual order to stop their advance, Kaminski was one that penetrated the perimeter of Dunkirk, finding all the stuff left on the beach by English soldiers fled. Next, his battalion was diverted to the south, cutting across France and arriving at the port of La Rochelle on June 23, shortly after the French surrender.

Moved to southern Poland in May 1941 and attached to the 17th Army, the 670th Battalion took part in Operation Barbarossa , crossing the southern Soviet Union to Odessa. Along the way, the antitank had their first contact with the giant Soviet KV-1 and the famous T-34 . The following year, Kaminski followed the advance of the 6th Army cross the Don to Stalingrad. After the Soviet offensive in late November, which ended the German siege to the city, Kaminski saw one of his crew being seriously injured, and was immediately ordered to lead him to the airfield Pitomnik for air evacuation. However, along the way, Kaminski himself was wounded by shrapnel, and was also embedded in a He 111 off the siege. In January 1943, the 670th Battalion was destroyed at Stalingrad.

Back in Berlin, Kaminski was assigned to a new unit, the 655th tank battalion, which was now equipped with the Nashorn, 88 mm. So, was sent back to the USSR, where he attended the historic Battle of Kursk. In heavy fighting, Kaminski destroyed several T-34, showing a unique ability to command the Nashorn. Already with over 50 tanks destroyed, he was awarded the German Cross in Gold on 10 October 1943. Wounded in action several times, Kaminski continued a successful string of destroying Soviet tanks, being a leader and commander bold and valiant. He was given command of the 3rd Platoon, being awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross on October 6, 1944 for its impressive historical combat.

In 1945, fighting north of Silesia, Kaminski surpassed the mark of 100 armored enemies destroyed, durantemente resisting the Soviet advance. In May, his company commander recommended him for the Oak Leaves of the Knight's Cross, but the process was never completed due to the war's end.

Taken prisoner by the Soviets and sent to Siberia, August Kaminski was only released in 1952. He married in 1957, working in the auto industry until retirement. An active member of ODR , Kaminski attended the meetings annually, and in 2009 launched his biography. One of the last soldiers who fought from the first to last day of the war, he leaves a wife and two daughters.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Michael Kenny » 22 Jun 2022 14:51

alcius wrote:
22 Jun 2022 14:09
Kaminski Allies destroyed several armored vehicles for the successful pursuit of the British Expeditionary Force and elements of the French Army, which ended in the isolated beaches of Dunkirk . After an unusual order to stop their advance, Kaminski was one that penetrated the perimeter of Dunkirk, finding all the stuff left on the beach by English soldiers fled.
So he was the man who, in typical 'ace' fashion won the battle at Dunkirk all by himself!
Sid Guttridge wrote:
14 Jun 2022 19:09


Before accepting the tank kill claims above too literally, I would recommend watching the following ..................
Do you seriously believe cold hard facts have any place in a laundry list of 'aces'?

Hardigan
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Hardigan » 22 Jun 2022 20:38

We know your 'facts', that's also why they kicked you out on different fora. And I'll wil repeat it again, this list is just an enumeration and for discussion of the (high) claims for the men who did count their 'destroyed' tanks. Their were lots of them what you can see in this list and also many photos with kill rings on their barrels.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Michael Kenny » 22 Jun 2022 21:54

Hardigan wrote:
22 Jun 2022 20:38
We know your 'facts', that's also why they kicked you out on different fora.
Which one would that be? I am always easy to find as I only ever post with my real name. I never hide my identity.

Hardigan wrote:
22 Jun 2022 20:38
this list is just an enumeration and for discussion of the (high) claims for the men who did count their 'destroyed' tanks. Their were lots of them what you can see in this list and also many photos with kill rings on their barrels.

I can (and have done in the past)provide you will several Normandy examples where the claimed 'kill' count is completely bogus so no this is not a list of only those who actually counted their kills.

alcius
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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by alcius » 23 Jun 2022 15:38

First of all, I apologize for the English. i'm italian and i use google translate to write.
I am not interested in discussions and diatribes, I publish what I have on panzeraces, to make it known to others, then everyone thinks as he wants.
Other aces
oberfeldwebel Richard Siebenthaler - Pz.Rgt.2 - +50 kills
siebenthaler.png
Oberfeldwebel Helmut Kauermann - Pz.Rgt. 2 - 52 kill
https://land-dinslaken.de/docindexer/19 ... raeger.pdf
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