Counter wrote:So, was is the relevance of your intervention
The relevance is that, regardless of your opinion, Spain was apparently not really interested in joining the war, at least in the situation that existed in 1940-1941. She could be forced to, but that would probably imply at least a credible menace of military intervention by Germany, if not outright invasion, which somehow defeats the purpose of the whole affair, and goes against the real interests of Hitler.
I expected something of the kind from you
So you expected reasoned arguments based on actual evidences and reliable sources? Good for you, then.
Counter wrote:You write "Germany could not provide what Spain asked for"... anyone thinking that we are here to write relevant arguments would understand that Germany could not provide the necessary supplies in order to Spain joining the Axis in the war..
Well, I think anyone here (but you, it seems) would understand only what is plainly written. It's not as if what I wrote had any hidden meaning or was difficult to understand. However, as you seem to think that you opinion is the measure of any relevance...
However, anyone with a functional brain can quickly see the futility of your argument, because what were the necessary supplies in orde to Spain joining the Axis in the war? Nothing, really. Spain could at any moment, without any supply provided by Germany, declare his allegiance to the Axis and enter the war. However, the results would probably be not good. After all, did Italy had the necessary supplies in order to join the war? Yes, but Italy lost the war. Did Germany had the necessary supplies in order to join the war? Yes, and still Germany lost the war.
What's the problem, then? The problem is that the relevant matter was not the necessary supplies in order to Spain joining the war, but the necessary supplies in order to Spain joining the war and winning, or at least having a reasonable chance of winning. And what were those needs? The only indication is what Spain asked for. Even the German document I posted states that:
[...]it must probably be admitted that it would be necessary to satisfy the needs listed in order to stablish the full economic and military striking power of Spain for a war"
And we are just talking about the full economic and military power of a third-rate country in a war of superpowers!
You can either think, as the available evidence implies, that they were more or less the real needs, and Germany was unable to provide them, or that Spain was simply buying time by asking for what Germany could not provide. In any of those cases, Germany could not provide the necessary supplies in order to make Spain join the Axis in the war.
Counter wrote:But you wrote "what Spain asked for". Obviously, after accepting to assist Spain economically (point 4 in the Hendaye Protocols... as you know perfectly) it would start the bargaining -I ask, you offer- about what Spain needed and what Germany could provide. The texts you have inserted -I knew them, included that about Goering- show that, of course, there would be economic assistance from Germany to Spain... but according to realistic considerations.
Oh, you know, but somehow still posted "First time I learned that there were an impossibility of that kind". You are that kind of poster, then!
And yes, there could be a bargaining. But what you fail to understand is that Spain has no need, and apparently no desire, to bargain. From September 1940 (the first document I posted) to February 1941 there was no bargaining, Spain did not reduce in any significant measure the quantities of supplies asked for. It is really significant in that sense that no minimum quantities were indicated by the Spanish.
Counter wrote:The idea about there was no possitive result of the negotiations due to the economic issues I find very personal... There were many factors (included, of course, the bribery of the British to Franco´s generals)
I never said that there was no possitive result due to economic issues. I said that in the economic field, Germany could not provide what Spain asked for. The same happened in the political field (territories) and in the military field (massive supply of weapons and equipment). So at the end of the day, there was no positive result because Spain was asking too much in any and all the matters involved. Clearly Franco was (not) dying for joining the Axis in the war!
Counter wrote: but the most decisive were, of course, that
1- Spain did not get a serious german commitment to allocate Spain an African Empire (due to the France position)
That's simply your opinion. Spain asked for three things: territories, economic help and military help. It is almost impossible to determine what was more important in the minds of the Spanish leaders of the time. In fact, probably any one of them was a necessary but not sufficient factor in the Spanish decision. Perhaps, the matter of the territories was the most difficult one to solve, as it would imply nations other than Germany and Spain, but it was by no means the most important. The Spanish authorities were not stupid, and even they could see that there was no point of obtaining some territories in Africa while your population is dying in droves because you can't replace the supplies that are not coming from the Allies because you have joined the Axis, or if some of your territories are going to be occupied by the Allies because you have no significant military power to defend them.
Counter wrote:2- Hitler was not interested enough in a Mediterranean campaign as he had the expectation of "Barbarrosa".
Indeed, I already mentioned that in my previous posts. And that's why if Spain did not want to enter the war, he would not force them at all. So we have a Spain with no real desire to enter the war in 1940-1941 and a Hitler with no real desire to force her to enter the war.