Hermann Müller-John & Musikkorps der Leibstandarte-SS "Adolf Hitler"

Discussions on the music in the Third Reich. Hosted by Ivan Ž.
Soldatenlieder und Märsch
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Hermann Müller-John & Musikkorps der Leibstandarte-SS "Adolf Hitler"

Post by Soldatenlieder und Märsch » 06 May 2002 22:59

Hallo all members of the Forum!

As a new member of this Forum I want to post my first topic!
I´m a serious collector of "Soldatenlieder und Märsche aus dem Dritten Reich" and have a large collection of original recordings of military songs
and marches, most of them recorded in Berlin 1930-1944, as well as my interest and collection of "Kleinkunst und Tanzmusik" from the same period. I have collected those kind of recordings for many years and now I wonder if someone could help me with all kind of biographical information of Musikmeister Hermann Müller-John who was in fact in charge of the wellknown "Musikkorps der Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler" since it was formed in Berlin 1933 and was later [1936] to be "Leibstandarten-Obermusikmeister" for the same band. I´ve got a great amount of original recordings made by the Musikkorps der Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler and I thought that it would be very interesting to know a little bit more about the man behind this famous band. I know that he committed suicide with his wife and children in 1945 but maybe someone knows a little bit more about him? Please, if someone have any biographical information about him, or just want to discuss the topic "Soldatenlieder und Märsche" don´t hesitate to write!

Thanks for your kind help!

"Soldatenlieder und Märsche"
[Mats from Sweden]

[Several topics dealing with the same band and conductor have been merged. Ivan Ž.]

Timo
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Post by Timo » 07 May 2002 00:40

The Musikkorps was formed on 04.08.1933, 36 musicians under "command" of SS-Hauptsturmführer Hermann Müller-John. In 1934 the orchestra was expanded to 72 men, selected on musical, health and racial qualifications. In the end the korps had a Sollstärke of 108 Musiker, but actual strength was 96 men. Musical education took place at the Staatl. Hochschule für Musik and in several Konservatorien, military training (parade training) took place together with I./LAH under command of Truppführern Plöw and Schmidl. Info about several concerts is given, if you're interested.

Müller-John's official title was Leibstandarten-Obermusikmeister, called Obumei by his men. He was 1.Musik-Inspizient der SS-VT and Mitglied des Reichs-Kultur-Senats. He made some radical changes to the orchestra, by adding Saxophones and other "Bigband" influences. He was respected by people like Prof. Erich Schumann and Erich Gutzeit (both composers) and Heeres-Musik-Inspizient Prof. Hermann Schmidt.

In 1945 he committed suicide in Austria, together with his wife and daughter. According to Lehmann this was his way to find peace with his involvement in the killing of 50 Polish civilians in 1939 (of whom several were Jewish).

According to Hstuf. Keilhaus and Hstuf. Ewert, the Musikkorps was shot at from a group of houses when their bus halted on a square. Several men were killed or wounded. Müller-John ordered the men of the Musikkorps and the medical column to search the houses. Weapons were found and the captured men were shot. v.Reichenau and von Rundstedt ordered a conduct and a trial and Müller-John was found guilty by a military court. Dietrich complained to Hitler and the führer signed a pardon. Officially because "crimes committed out of anger caused by the way the Poles treated the Volksdeutschen should not be punished". But Müller-John considered himself guilty of a war crime. According to Weingartner he told Paul Hausser: Wo das Verbrechen beginnt, hört die Kameradschaft auf!"

Mark Alinsky
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Post by Mark Alinsky » 07 May 2002 04:26

Timo, where did you get this information from?

Timo
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Post by Timo » 07 May 2002 04:30

The first two volumes of Lehmann's Divisional history

Soldatenlieder und Märsch
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Post by Soldatenlieder und Märsch » 07 May 2002 06:08

Hallo Timo!

Thanks a lot for the interesting information about the Musikkorps Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler and for the information about Hermann Müller-John! Do you also know what year Hermann Müller-John was born, and maybe what date in 1945 that he committed suicide?

Thanks again for kind help!
Best wishes from
Mats, Sweden

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Matt Gibbs
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Post by Matt Gibbs » 07 May 2002 14:24

Soldatenlieder und Märsch wrote: I´ve got a great amount of original recordings made by the Musikkorps der Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler
Mats;
Interesting subject, its amazing what people collect these days. When you say you have a collection of original music do you mean re-recorded or original 78rpm recordings...??
I walked past a stack of old 78's last year at the Beltring Show and kicked myself later for not taking a closer look, they were mostly marches etc such as HJ Marsch and others all with a little swastika flag on the record label. Wish I had bought some now. I have listened to good recordings of the 1st SS band playing marches and their music was pretty good.
Regards

Timo
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Post by Timo » 07 May 2002 18:43

Soldatenlieder und Märsch wrote: Do you also know what year Hermann Müller-John was born, and maybe what date in 1945 that he committed suicide?
Müller-John, Hermann
NSDAP-nr. 452295
SS-nr. 207148

I don't have a date of birth or death.

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 07 May 2002 18:50

Timo,

Very interesting, thanks.

/Marcus

Soldatenlieder und Märsch
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Post by Soldatenlieder und Märsch » 07 May 2002 20:21

Matt Gibbs wrote:Interesting subject, its amazing what people collect these days. When you say you have a collection of original music do you mean re-recorded or original 78rpm recordings...??
I walked past a stack of old 78's last year at the Beltring Show and kicked myself later for not taking a closer look, they were mostly marches etc such as HJ Marsch and others all with a little swastika flag on the record label. Wish I had bought some now. I have listened to good recordings of the 1st SS band playing marches and their music was pretty good.

Hallo Matt!

Thanks for your interesting message!
In my collection I have both original 78 rpm records together with re-recorded ones from the original 78's. I can imagine that you have kicked yourself more then one time for not have bought some of those records! You really missed something there! In fact it must have been a little fortune just laying there waiting to be bought! For a few days ago I saw some original 78's performed by the Musikkorps Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler and the price of it was 130 Euro! It´s just amazing and unbelievable when you hear it! 130 Euro!! German 78's are very easy to find in Sweden. Many of the most popular artists in Sweden [not only Zarah Leander] often went to Berlin to record many sessions for the labels Odeon and Telefunken during the Third Reich. Both Odeon and Telefunken excisted in Sweden, and sometimes some of the German artists went to Sweden for recording sessions. The military music from the Third Reich is much harder to find on original 78's here in Sweden because many seem to collect them! Honestly I think that those German military records are very much wanted among collectors all over the world! Germany is so very near to Sweden so it is of course not so strange that this kind of co-operating between the German and swedish recordindustry during the Third Reich excisted, so of course much of the military music must have reached Sweden too, as well as the popular music.

Timo wrote:Müller-John, Hermann
NSDAP-nr. 452295
SS-nr. 207148

Timo,

Thanks so much for the interesting information about Hermann Müller-John!

Best wishes from
Mats, Sweden

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saxon
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Post by saxon » 11 May 2002 14:39

Hallo Mats,
Thank you for the links you sent me last week, I haven't had a chance to view them yet , all work no play for me at the moment !, but I have some spare time this week-end ( fingers crossed ! ).

Best Regards
Derek.
" Utrinque Paratus "

musketiii
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Post by musketiii » 12 May 2002 21:51

Great and interesting subject,as I sit here with my ear phones,playing German marches.I exercise my Boxers with cassette of London German Army chorus,1962-63,SW 99007,99439,and others..if I could just get them to stay in step!!I was stationed near Mainz,1962-65 and first time I heard the locals tune up I was hooked.I have not found a website for German military music fans and would like any info you all have.I gave my vinyl LPs to my son,after making cassettes, and now buy current CDs via the internet. Some play the Blues when they are Blue,but I'll play the marsche any day.In the middle of Dallas traffic,I turn up the CD player and the music,with all that energy, really keeps my spirits up.I would like to know more about the WW2 German bands and hope more information will be posted by you.Many thanks,John Wilson

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Starinov
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Post by Starinov » 18 Aug 2003 15:45

To whom it may come, Greeting:

Can anybody tell me if LSSAH Musikkorps took part in the war against Poland and France? It can be seen on several OoB's but, personally, I don't see the point of this unit on the front line.... Thanks

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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 18 Aug 2003 17:28

I'm at work at present but I would assume that as with most armies Music sections actually become the stretcher bearers and ancillary medics

Andy H

Timo
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Post by Timo » 18 Aug 2003 18:29

Starinov, some people might think that my goal is to personally answer all your questions :wink:

Timo wrote:According to Hstuf. Keilhaus and Hstuf. Ewert, the Musikkorps was shot at from a group of houses when their bus halted on a square. Several men were killed or wounded. Müller-John ordered the men of the Musikkorps and the medical column to search the houses. Weapons were found and the captured men were shot. v.Reichenau and von Rundstedt ordered a conduct and a trial and Müller-John was found guilty by a military court. Dietrich complained to Hitler and the führer signed a pardon. Officially because "crimes committed out of anger caused by the way the Poles treated the Volksdeutschen should not be punished". But Müller-John considered himself guilty of a war crime. According to Weingartner he told Paul Hausser: Wo das Verbrechen beginnt, hört die Kameradschaft auf!"

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Starinov
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Post by Starinov » 18 Aug 2003 20:56

Timo Worst wrote:Starinov, some people might think that my goal is to personally answer all your questions

Well I don't mind. :D This way, I am sure about the quality of the info....

Thank you very much.

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