Turkish ships seized in Italian-Turkish war

[gttf]

Hello,
according to the old "Le torpediniere italiane1881-1964", 2^ ed. 1974, USMM, Roma, I've noticed that, within the framework of the activities during the Italian-Turkish war, the torpedo-boat "Sirio" seems to have seized an Egyptian smuggler sailing ship (page 171) off Bardia (presently Al Bardīyah, in Eastern Libyah): in the same book there is a picture of "Sirio" towing the sailing ship, page 173. Neither date nor identification of the vessel are given.
According to the same book , the torpedo-boat "Scorpione" is said to have seized a Turkish steamer which was brought to Taranto (page 173). Even in this case, neither date, nor identification of the vessel nor position of the seizing.
Moreover, in "Gli incrociatori italiani", 4^ Ed. 1976, USMM, Roma, page 298, the seizing of a "pirobarca" (it should be translated as picket boat, or steam-boat) is credited to the torpedo-cruiser "Coatit", probably along the Anatolian coasts, maybe in spring-summer 1912.

I have examined all the main published Italian sources (e.g. "La Marina italiana nella guerra Italo-turca", by prof. Gabriele (USMM, Roma, 1998)), the famous "Ottoman steam navy" and the old "The History of the Italian-Turkish War" by Commodore W.H. Beehler (1913), unsuccessfully.

Any data about these events in the databases of our Turkish friends ?

Thanks in advance

Best regards

Fabrizio

[Jochen Kruesmann]

Hello Fabrizio,

I strong presume that the steamer seized by SCORPIONE was this vessel, although it was not a Turkish one, but seized because of carrying Turkish soldiers and taken to Taranto (other Turkish steamers were taken to Brindisi etc. etc., but this is the only one I have in my archive as taken to Taranto):

Bld.: J. Elder & Co. Ltd., Glasgow -212-
L: 13.01.1877 T: 10.02.1877 Eng.: T3cyl 690ihp J. Elder & Co. Ltd.
719gt 381nt 6550tdw L=61,26m B=8,26m D=4,6m

10.02.1877: SHEFFIELD Manchester, Sheffield & Lincolnshire Railway Co., Manchester, p.o.r. Grimsby /Br 04.11.1898: SHEFFIELD Great Central Railway Co., Manchester, p.o.r. Grimsby /Br 25.08.1910: SHEFFIELD J. Constant, London, p.o.r. Grimsby /Br 03.11.1910: SHEFFIELD Patriotic Steamship Co. Ltd., London, p.o.r. Grimsby (m) M. Constant & J.E. Darby, London /Br 12.01.1912: SHEFFIELD J. Constant, London, p.o.r. Grimsby /Br 01.10.1911: seized by Italian forces in the port of Chinkin (San Giovanni di Medua) with a few Osmanlı troops on board and taken to Taranto as prize, later released 03.11.1914: loading of cargo of fruits for Odessa completed at İstanbul, but permission to sail rejected by Osmanlı Government 23.11.1914: seized by Osmanlı Government at İstanbul .11.1914: SHEFFIELD Osmanlı Bahriye-transport / barracks vessel- .02.1919: SHEFFIELD J. Constant, London, p.o.r. Grimsby /Br 10.03.1926: British registry closed as sold to Persian interests 27.12.1926: HÜSEYNİYE İngiliz Hüseyin Rüstem, İstanbul 1931: SEYYAR D.A. Dimitriades ve Hantalzade Tayyar ve Sürekası, İstanbul 01.01.1933: SEYYAR Türk Soyete Vapurculuk T.A.Ş., İstanbul 01.01.1936: SEYYAR Denizyolları İşletmesi Müdürlüĝü, İstanbul 01.01.1938: SEYYAR Denizbank Umum Müdürlüĝü, İstanbul 01.07.1939: SEYYAR Devlet Denizyolları İşletmesi Umum Müdürlüğü, İstanbul 01.05.1944: SEYYAR Devlet Denizyolları ve Limanları İşletme Genel Müdürlüĝü, İstanbul 01.03.1952 SEYYAR Denizcilik Bankası T.A.O., İstanbul 04.07.1953: out of service 13.07.1961: sold for demolition to Şakir Kopuz at İstanbul

For the other vessels I have no informations, sorry.

Best regards,
Jochen

[Jochen Kruesmann]

Hello Fabrizio,

I found another steamer that was seized by Italian forces and send to Taranto, but again it was not an Turkish vessel. So it will be difficult to trace which vessel was captured by SCORPIONE without any Italian details of the ship:

NEWA
Cargo/Iron/Screwsteamer
Bld.: Reiherstieg Werft, Hamburg -239-
L: .08.1872 T: 11.11.1872 Eng.: C2cyl 300ihp Reiherstieg Werft
549gt 308nt 600tdw L=57,0m B=7,7m D=4,0m

11.11.1872: NEWA Hanseatische Dampfschiffahrts-Gesellschaft, Lübeck /Ge 02.04.1910: sold to British interests 09.05.1910: NEWA Patriotic Steamship Co. Ltd. (m) M. Constant & J.E. Darby, London /Br 30.09.1911: seized by Italian forces off Preveze with a cargo of a few Osmanlı officers and troops and ammunition and taken as prize 01.10.1911: arrived at Taranto, but later released 18.12.1911: NEWA J. Constant, London /Br 03.11.1914: loading of cargo of fruits for Odessa completed at İstanbul, but permission to sail rejected by Osmanlı Government 23.11.1914: seized by the Osmanlı Government at İstanbul .11.1914 NEWA Levazim İşleri Dairesi (m) Osmanlı Seyr-i Sefain İdaresi, İstanbul 07.03.1915: sank by gunfire of Russian cruisers KAGUL and PAMJAT MERKURIJA at KD-Ereğli o/V: İstanbul-KD-Ereğli in ballast 26.08.1920: British registry closed

[gttf]

Thank you, Jochen, for your detailed answer.
AFAIK, "Newa" (english flag) was seized by the destroyer "Alpino", off Preveza, on 30th September, 1911.
"Sheffield" (english flag) was seized a San Giovanni di Medua (now Shëngjin), probably again by "Alpino" on 1st, October, 1911.
"Sabah" (turkish flag) was seized, again by "Alpino", on 29th September 1911.
The blockade of Albanian coast was performed by a squadron of Italian Navy including the armoured cruisers "Marco Polo" and "Vettor Pisani", the destroyers "Alpino", "Carabiniere", "Espero", "Corazziere" ,"Artigliere" and the high-sea torpedo boat "Spica" (even if I'm not 100% sure about the latter).
"Sabah" and "Sheffield" were brought to Brindisi.
The seizing of a turkish steamer by "Scorpione" will remain a little mistery, I think
Thanks again and best regards

Fabrizio

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi gttf,

An interesting topic, which leads to the question: Did the Turks have any success in reinforcing their troops in Libya by sea?

Cheers,

id.

[Jochen Kruesmann]

Hello Fabrizio,

Thanks for the details of the Italian vessels involved in the captures.

@Sid: No, after the arrival of the steamer DERNE on 26./27.09.1911 with ammunition and supplies no Ottoman steamer arrived in any port of Libya after the declaration of war, but of course there was some contraband / smuggling voyages carried out small sailing vessels from Egypt to small Libyan ports which had no effect on the reinforcement of the Ottoman troops in Libya.

[gttf]

Hi Sid and Jochen,
I think that the answer can be twofold: no reinforcement for Ottoman troops (apart very few men), but a not negligible amount of supplies (no clues about a quantification of them).
Turks were able, for the whole war, to convey a flux of arms and supplies, exploiting, in general, sailing ships under different flags. This was a constant problem for the Regia Marina, notwithstanding the patrols performer by warships and AMCs.
Just to have a reference figure, more than 800 ships were stopped and inspected both in Mediterranean Sea and in Red Sea.
As an example, by limiting the cases only to the vessels recognized as war preys according to the International Courts, we have:
- Schooner Zarug (Turk), seized by destroyer Garibaldino, 5th October, 1911, off Zeira (not able to identify it)
- Sailing ship Aghios Nikolaos (Cretan), seized by AMC Città di Catania, 29th, November, 1911, off Cyrenaic coast
- Sailing ship Aghios Nikolaos (Kastellorizo), seized by destroyer Bersagliere, 10th, December, 1911, off Alexandria
- Sailing ship Taxiarchis (Cypriot), seized by destroyer Bersagliere, 10th, December, 1911, off Alexandria
- Brig Evangelistria (Kastellorizo), seized by AMC Città di Siracusa, 10th, December, 1911, off Alexandria
- Sailing ship Archangelos (Turk), seized by AMC Città di Siracusa, 14th, December, 1911, off Alexandria
- Sailing ship Orthodossia (Kastellorizo), seized by AMC Città di Palermo, 14th, December, 1911, off Alexandria
Often the smuggler ships landed their loads in the immediate vicinity of the borders with Tunisia (western Libya) and Egypt (Eastern Libya, near Sollum, for example) then the supplies were brought to destination , by exploiting the trails towards the interior.
Jochen is right, concerning Derne: she was scuttled in Tripoli Harbour after downloading Mauser rifles (20.000 according the local Italian con sul), ammunition and other supplies.
Best regards

Fabrizio

[Jochen Kruesmann]

Hello Fabrizio,

I have identfied the location of the place "Zeira" mentioned by you. Dzeira is an anchorage located some kilometers west of Misrata. Alternative names are stated as Marsa Dzeira, Marsa Zurayq, Marset Zreg, Marset Zregh, Marsá Dzeira, Marsá Zurayq, Màrset Zregh, Márset Zreg.

Regards,
Jochen

[gttf]

Thank you, Jochen.

Regards

Fabrizio

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi gttf,

I am unable to contribute to this topic through ignorance, but I am certainly following it with interest.

My grandmother, who was living in Malta, was employed as an English governess for an Italian cavalry officer's children in Libya in about 1914. She got the job by claiming to be able to ride. However, the first time she was put on a horse it bolted. She recalls being chased across the plain by his whole squadron of Italian cavlrymen as they tried to bring it under control.

My grandmother was called "Kinza" by the local Arabs, which apparently means "Lady of the House" in Arabic, because she was the one who dealt with them. She liked it and as a result gave it as the second name to my mother, who only died two years ago.

Cheers,

Sid.

[gttf]

Thanks, Sid, to have shared with us this piece of your family history.

As you know, the conquest of Libya by Italy took a very long time and was extremely bloody, on both sides, lasting, in practice, up to 1931, when the last Libyan resistance was crushed: not a bright page in the Italian history, indeed.

Regards

Fabrizio