Ss totenkopf uniform question

[Jawol]

Epic militaria is selling this ( attached below) SS EM/NCO uniform and I wanted to modify this to be a totenkopf EM/NCO uniform by simply swapping the collar tabs with the classic “ one skull, one blank” set of SSTV EM collar tabs without the silver/ aluminum piping. Note the uniform is of an EM/NCO and Does NOT have silver tresse around the collar area.

However, would such a deceptively simple and basic uniform exist historically speaking? Or would I need to have SOME sort of rank displayed , EG Sturmann rank via sleeve chevron?

Would this type of uniform exist generally , even without me modding the SS collar tabs? As in , did LITERAL bottom rank “Privates” wear the EM visor cap? Did no rank/private level SSTV men wear the visor cap? Was rank displayed historically through the secondary collar tab ONLY( which is blank in this case) , or could you have a blank tab and then display rank through sleeve insignias or maybe even through shoulder board / collar tresse? ( in this case I can’t modify the last 2 things since I want to portray a rank as close to the bottom as possible, so really I’m asking if it’s appropriate to have a blank collar tab and display rank through a sleeve chevron)

[von thoma]

Hello Jawol :

Welcome to AHF.

However, would such a deceptively simple and basic uniform exist historically speaking ?

See the below example, an SS-Mann rank.

Note the uniform is of an EM/NCO and Does NOT have silver tresse around the collar area.

Not is correct, is an uniform that show only an enlisted man ( Your picture )

did LITERAL bottom rank “Privates” wear the EM visor cap? Did no rank/private level SSTV men wear the visor cap ?

Enlisted men were authorized to wear visor caps, same as NCOs.

Was rank displayed historically through the secondary collar tab ONLY( which is blank in this case) , or could you have a blank tab and then display rank through sleeve insignias or maybe even through shoulder board / collar tresse ?

Not, blank collar patch not wear any chevron on shoulder boards or sleeve.
Only SS-Oberchütze has blank collar patch and a sleeve insignia.

[Jawol]

Thanks for your reply , I appreciate it.


What do you mean by chevron on the sleeve? Do you mean the “V” shaped chevron such as the sturmanns chevron patch or rottenfuhrer patch on the sleeve; or do you ALSO mean the German eagle carrying the swastika?

So you’re saying if someone had blank collar tabs totenkopf style, they wouldn’t even have the sleeve eagle? Or they would have the sleeve eagle, but no additional chevron “ V” underneath it?

[von thoma]

What do you mean by chevron on the sleeve? Do you mean the “V” shaped chevron such as the sturmanns chevron patch or rottenfuhrer patch on the sleeve; or do you ALSO mean the German eagle carrying the swastika?

Yes, that is indeed what I mean, SS arm eagle is not a chevron, better an insignia, a part of all SS uniforms when the armbands were removed.

So you’re saying if someone had blank collar tabs totenkopf style, they wouldn’t even have the sleeve eagle ?

Negative I did not say that, the SS arm eagle always worn on the arm, but the ' V ' chevron only when the soldier has a rank of
SS-Sturmmann or SS-Rottenführer, and his left collar patch it's not blank anymore.

Or they would have the sleeve eagle, but no additional chevron “ V” underneath it ?

Below, the red circles indicate where the rank is shown ( left collar patch and double ' V ' chevron for an SS-Rottenführer )
The arm eagle only suggest that he is a soldier of the SS.

SS-Rottenführer.jpg

[Jawol]

What do you mean by chevron on the sleeve? Do you mean the “V” shaped chevron such as the sturmanns chevron patch or rottenfuhrer patch on the sleeve; or do you ALSO mean the German eagle carrying the swastika?

Yes, that is indeed what I mean, SS arm eagle is not a chevron, better an insignia, a part of all SS uniforms when the armbands were removed.

So you’re saying if someone had blank collar tabs totenkopf style, they wouldn’t even have the sleeve eagle ?

Negative I did not say that, the SS arm eagle always worn on the arm, but the ' V ' chevron only when the soldier has a rank of
SS-Sturmmann or SS-Rottenführer, and his left collar patch it's not blank anymore.

Or they would have the sleeve eagle, but no additional chevron “ V” underneath it ?

Below, the red circles indicate where the rank is shown ( left collar patch and double ' V ' chevron for an SS-Rottenführer )
The arm eagle only suggest that he is a soldier of the SS.


SS-Rottenführer.jpg

Thank you for your help I appreciate it. I didn’t know that the eagle was underneath the red armbands on ss uniforms as well, that’s news to me

[von thoma]

I didn’t know that the eagle was underneath the red armbands on ss uniforms as well, that’s news to me

That's not correct, in SS black uniforms there was no eagle under the NSDAP armband.
That is seen sometimes in ill-informed movies...

Dietrich has removed the armband from his black service uniform, which was a short-term expedient adopted during this period
to set the personnel of the infant Leibstandarte apart from the mass of the Allgemeine-SS.

[von thoma]

An exception ;

The called SS Mess Dress

[Jawol]

I didn’t know that the eagle was underneath the red armbands on ss uniforms as well, that’s news to me

That's not correct, in SS black uniforms there was no eagle under the NSDAP armband.
That is seen sometimes in ill-informed movies...

Dietrich has removed the armband from his black service uniform, which was a short-term expedient adopted during this period
to set the personnel of the infant Leibstandarte apart from the mass of the Allgemeine-SS.

Thanks for the information. Since I have your attention and you are seemingly very informed ( way more than me), what are your thoughts on this SD uniform? Is this a good 1:1 replica ?

[HPL2008]

An exception ;

The called SS Mess Dress

No exception.

The jackets for the Großer Gesellschaftsanzug [formal evening dress] and the Gesellschaftsanzug [mess dress/informal evening dress] were two entirely different garments.

The former was worn with the armband (in a special version with aluminum piping) and no sleeve eagle, the latter was worn with the sleeve eagle and no armband.

(All clearly visible in the illustration, really.)