The Gleiwitz Incident

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Mannheim
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The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by Mannheim » 27 Mar 2022 03:56

What are the sources for the Gleiwitz Incident apart from Naujock's confession?
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

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stg 44
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Re: The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by stg 44 » 09 Apr 2022 03:07

From what I can find the only evidence is Naujock's affidavit.

No documents were captured and what else there was is entirely conjecture.

Gleiwitz was mentioned as a place (among others) claimed to have been attacked by the Polish sabotage teams in German news:
https://www.akg-images.com/archive/-2UMDHUQW3L4P.html

That can a transcript of disputed authenticity of a speech Hitler gave in late August to his general in which he said incidents would be found to justify the invasion.

Mannheim
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Re: The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by Mannheim » 09 Apr 2022 08:11

That's pretty much all I could find too.
Kein Irrtum ist so groß, der nicht seinen Zuhörer hat.

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Hans1906
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Re: The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by Hans1906 » 09 Apr 2022 12:59

Mannheim,

I personally still think the DEFA feature film "Der Fall Gleiwitz" from the year 1961 is excellent.

Link: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Fall_Gleiwitz

The movie:


Personally, I consider later film adaptations to be rather bad, but as always, that's just my very personal opinion.


Hans

P.S. Of course, the East German production at that time was pushed to the extreme, but that was what characterized these productions and still does today.
You should keep an eye on the time, there were no former Nazis in the GDR, only staunch communists.
The Nazis, they only still existed in "West Germany", how simple the world was only a few years after the world war...
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 24 Apr 2022 16:51

What did all this have to do with Oskar Schindler? According to Emilie Schindler, it was Oskar who obtained and stored the Polish uniforms in their Mahrisch Ostrau apartment before they were sent to Heydrich’s operatives for the attack on the radio station at Gleiwitz. Emilie adds that they bought their first Polish uniform from a Polish soldier and then sent it to Berlin, where it was reproduced in large quantities.36 It is possible that a random Polish uniform was obtained this way, but most were obtained from Polish ethnic Germans who had deserted the Polish army and fled to Germany. They gladly turned over their uniforms to the Wehrmacht. This was Oskar’s only involvement in this aspect of the attack on Poland. According to historian Dr. Jaroslav Valenta, a member of the Czech Academy of Sciences, even if Schindler had stored large quantities of Polish uniforms, weapons, and cigarettes in his apartment, it was doubtful he had much to do with the Gleiwitz attack because his operational area was around Polish Tesin near the Slovak border. Because of this, most of his time was spent planning for the German attack on the railway tunnel at Jablunkov Pass.37
David Crowe, Oskar Schindler, p.57

Emilie Schindler was his wife.

According to the same book :
The idea of disguising German forces as Polish soldiers to create an in¬ cident that would enable Hitler to justify his invasion of Poland came from Generalleutnant Erich von Manstein, the Chief of Staff of Army Group South, who was responsible for attacking the heavily industrialized area of Upper Silesia just to the northwest of Mahrisch Ostrau. Manstein wanted to dress three battalions of German shock troops in Polish uni¬ forms to seize Upper Silesia in the early hours of the invasion. Although Hitler rejected the plan, Reinhard Heydrich, the head of the Security Po¬ lice and the SD, took Manstein’s ideas and revised the plan.34

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Helly Angel
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Re: The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by Helly Angel » 24 Apr 2022 19:34

Hans,

I remember an old movie, perhaps from the late 70s or early 80s, produced in the Czech Republic, in Spanish they called it "Acción Himmler" (Himmler Action) and it represented more or less something coherent about the Gleiwitz operation, but I have not been able to find the technical file on imdb or some video on youtube, I remember it was in color.

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wm
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Re: The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by wm » 24 Apr 2022 20:00

Are you sure it wasn't an East-German movie? or a Polish movie?

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Helly Angel
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Re: The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by Helly Angel » 25 Apr 2022 00:34

Thank you wm,

Great!! Yes !, it is the Polish version!! Thank you! I even remember the version I saw in Spanish, they used the word "preserves", it was based on the narrative of Naujocks who is not a reliable source, he was a man of intelligence, I find it hard to believe that they left him alive, it may have helped that Heydrich had dead before the end of the war, but his story, Müller was super aware, he should have eliminated it to cover everything.

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stg 44
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Re: The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by stg 44 » 07 May 2022 20:05

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
24 Apr 2022 16:51
What did all this have to do with Oskar Schindler? According to Emilie Schindler, it was Oskar who obtained and stored the Polish uniforms in their Mahrisch Ostrau apartment before they were sent to Heydrich’s operatives for the attack on the radio station at Gleiwitz. Emilie adds that they bought their first Polish uniform from a Polish soldier and then sent it to Berlin, where it was reproduced in large quantities.36 It is possible that a random Polish uniform was obtained this way, but most were obtained from Polish ethnic Germans who had deserted the Polish army and fled to Germany. They gladly turned over their uniforms to the Wehrmacht. This was Oskar’s only involvement in this aspect of the attack on Poland. According to historian Dr. Jaroslav Valenta, a member of the Czech Academy of Sciences, even if Schindler had stored large quantities of Polish uniforms, weapons, and cigarettes in his apartment, it was doubtful he had much to do with the Gleiwitz attack because his operational area was around Polish Tesin near the Slovak border. Because of this, most of his time was spent planning for the German attack on the railway tunnel at Jablunkov Pass.37
David Crowe, Oskar Schindler, p.57

Emilie Schindler was his wife.

According to the same book :
The idea of disguising German forces as Polish soldiers to create an in¬ cident that would enable Hitler to justify his invasion of Poland came from Generalleutnant Erich von Manstein, the Chief of Staff of Army Group South, who was responsible for attacking the heavily industrialized area of Upper Silesia just to the northwest of Mahrisch Ostrau. Manstein wanted to dress three battalions of German shock troops in Polish uni¬ forms to seize Upper Silesia in the early hours of the invasion. Although Hitler rejected the plan, Reinhard Heydrich, the head of the Security Po¬ lice and the SD, took Manstein’s ideas and revised the plan.34
What are the footnote sources? Just Emilie's claims?

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: The Gleiwitz Incident

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 09 May 2022 09:30

stg 44 wrote:
07 May 2022 20:05
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
24 Apr 2022 16:51
What did all this have to do with Oskar Schindler? According to Emilie Schindler, it was Oskar who obtained and stored the Polish uniforms in their Mahrisch Ostrau apartment before they were sent to Heydrich’s operatives for the attack on the radio station at Gleiwitz. Emilie adds that they bought their first Polish uniform from a Polish soldier and then sent it to Berlin, where it was reproduced in large quantities.36 It is possible that a random Polish uniform was obtained this way, but most were obtained from Polish ethnic Germans who had deserted the Polish army and fled to Germany. They gladly turned over their uniforms to the Wehrmacht. This was Oskar’s only involvement in this aspect of the attack on Poland. According to historian Dr. Jaroslav Valenta, a member of the Czech Academy of Sciences, even if Schindler had stored large quantities of Polish uniforms, weapons, and cigarettes in his apartment, it was doubtful he had much to do with the Gleiwitz attack because his operational area was around Polish Tesin near the Slovak border. Because of this, most of his time was spent planning for the German attack on the railway tunnel at Jablunkov Pass.37
David Crowe, Oskar Schindler, p.57

Emilie Schindler was his wife.

According to the same book :
The idea of disguising German forces as Polish soldiers to create an in¬ cident that would enable Hitler to justify his invasion of Poland came from Generalleutnant Erich von Manstein, the Chief of Staff of Army Group South, who was responsible for attacking the heavily industrialized area of Upper Silesia just to the northwest of Mahrisch Ostrau. Manstein wanted to dress three battalions of German shock troops in Polish uni¬ forms to seize Upper Silesia in the early hours of the invasion. Although Hitler rejected the plan, Reinhard Heydrich, the head of the Security Po¬ lice and the SD, took Manstein’s ideas and revised the plan.34
What are the footnote sources? Just Emilie's claims?
"According to Emilie Schindler, it was Oskar who obtained and stored the Polish uniforms in their Mahrisch Ostrau apartment before they were sent to Heydrich’s operatives for the attack on the radio station at Gleiwitz. Emilie adds that they bought their first Polish uniform from a Polish soldier and then sent it to Berlin, where it was reproduced in large quantities."
36 : Emily Schindler, Light and Shadow p.32
"According to historian Dr. Jaroslav Valenta, a member of the Czech Academy of Sciences, even if Schindler had stored large quantities of Polish uniforms, weapons, and cigarettes in his apartment, it was doubtful he had much to do with the Gleiwitz attack because his operational area was around Polish Tesin near the Slovak border. Because of this, most of his time was spent planning for the German attack on the railway tunnel at Jablunkov Pass."
37 :
37.png
Emily Schindler claims that Oskar had something to do with the Gleiwitz incident, while others dont think so.

Concerning :
"The idea of disguising German forces as Polish soldiers to create an in¬ cident that would enable Hitler to justify his invasion of Poland came from Generalleutnant Erich von Manstein, the Chief of Staff of Army Group South, who was responsible for attacking the heavily industrialized area of Upper Silesia just to the northwest of Mahrisch Ostrau. Manstein wanted to dress three battalions of German shock troops in Polish uni¬ forms to seize Upper Silesia in the early hours of the invasion. Although Hitler rejected the plan, Reinhard Heydrich, the head of the Security Po¬ lice and the SD, took Manstein’s ideas and revised the plan."
34 : Höhne, Canaris, p.337-339.
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