Did Germany reject a potential alliance with Turkey?

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Texas Jäger
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Did Germany reject a potential alliance with Turkey?

Post by Texas Jäger » 22 Aug 2020 05:55

I recall reading some time ago that the OKW proposed an alliance with Turkey and Hitler rejected it, does anyone know about this? I can't remember what the source was or why he did it.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Did Germany reject a potential alliance with Turkey?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 22 Aug 2020 07:54

The Turks were very canny not to side with anybody in WWII until the very end, but took significant arms deliveries from both sides as they played them off against each other. In 1942 Germany promised more and better equipment to Turkey than it did to Romania, Hungary or Bulgaria, yet the Turks still hung back.

Cheers,

Sid.

steevh
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Re: Did Germany reject a potential alliance with Turkey?

Post by steevh » 06 Sep 2020 19:31

I was always under the impression that Turkey learned a very hard lesson from WWI, and that was why they kept out of WWII.

I'm sure they would have started looking at the matter in July 1941, but have decided that they could sit on the fence for quite a few months, and that by Dec. 1941 any brief enthusiasm for an alliance would have disappeared.

thaddeus_c
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Re: Did Germany reject a potential alliance with Turkey?

Post by thaddeus_c » 25 Dec 2020 18:39

Turkey was in a similar position to Japan in that they were recruited to join the Anti-Comintern, then Germany signed a pact with ... the Comintern (USSR), the worst foe of Turkey AND they were aligned, then allied with the SECOND worst foe of Turkey, Italy.

would think after the initial success of Germany they would have considered what they could gain from an alliance but the quick occupations of Iraq and Iran ended any daydreams?

as far as Barbarossa? while Turkey could not offer a modern, mobile army, they could have been an important and logical staging area, but assume Germany did not want to sort through competing demands of Turkey, Bulgaria, and Italy any more than they did the demands of Vichy France, Spain, and Italy in the Western Med?

Erwinn
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Re: Did Germany reject a potential alliance with Turkey?

Post by Erwinn » 06 Jan 2021 06:47

As a Turk, there was not even %1 possibility to join any side during the war.

We had a very weak army, no population, bad logistics and roads. Economically we could not support another war just yet. WW1 really took a toll on us and we were one of the few countries who fought WW1 for 8 years, not 4.(War of Independence still counts us ongoing war for us)

Rapid industrialization and developments were still ongoing and they will not be finished for another 10-20 years. Our depleted manpower also meant that we could've fielded a very small army at the time.

Turkish participation in Barbaross would mean nothing at all. Soviet border with Turkey was a mountanious terrain with under developed area. You cannot support an offensive over there. There is a good chance any attempt will get bogged down there just as Army Group North getting stuck at Tikhvin because of logistics. Also doing this could mean 1 more front, Turkish south front which would be exploited by the British. Keep in mind that Iran would be occupied at some point and that means extended frontier for Germans and the Turks.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Did Germany reject a potential alliance with Turkey?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Jan 2021 12:56

Hi Texas Jaeger,

You may be confusing this with Allied attempts to recruit Turkey, which it rebuffed.

If I remember correctly, Turkey was a member of the Allied-sponsored Balkan Entente, along with Greece and Yugoslavia. However, it prudently did not join with them when they were attacked by Germany and Italy. However, Turkey did transfer a disarmed Greek Army formation (the Evros Brigade?) across its territory to the British in Syria. This had sought internment in Turkey when the Germans over ran northern Greece.

In the middle war years Churchill tried very hard to draw Germany onto the Allied side by offering them more modern armaments and military support, but the Turks still could not be induced into Allied ranks.

It appears that the Turks were very impressed by the German bombing of Belgrade and feared that the same might happen to Istanbul, which was very vulnerable as it was in European Turkey only a few miles from the border. In late 1943 they were also probably impressed by the German ability to retake the islands of Kos and Leros, which lay just off the Turkish coast, from the British.

Cheers,

Sid.

Erwinn
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Re: Did Germany reject a potential alliance with Turkey?

Post by Erwinn » 18 Jan 2021 10:52

We've sent our Chief of Staff prior to Kursk in 1943. He and his aides were hosted by Manstein himself. You can see some Tiger manoeuvers done in front of them.

However when they returned to Turkey, they concluded Germans will lose the war and reported accordingly to the PM.

CheeseMerchant
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Re: Did Germany reject a potential alliance with Turkey?

Post by CheeseMerchant » 22 Jan 2021 16:20

Turkey accepted a Trade agreement in oktober 1941 supplying the Axis with alot of raw materials like Iron ore,chromium and others. also it was a big supplier of tobacco to the German forces.so in a way they,just like Spain. supported the Axis economicaly. while not clearly choosing a side.

Other then economical assistance Turkey had nothing to add to an Axis alliance other then another staging area for Operation barbarossa. allowing the Germans to push for the Oil fields in Baku earlier. but even that is very doubtfull as the rough terrain would have allowed for a good defense being put up by the Soviets.and very limited ways to get around such defenses.

Soure:https://www.archives.gov/research/holoc ... urkey.html
Source to the document of the treaty of friendship between Germany and Turkey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2 ... 8_0261.jpg

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