The "myth" of German overclaiming analysed.

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Re: The "myth" of German overclaiming analysed.

Post by Cult Icon » 10 Jan 2019 23:06

Mori wrote:
10 Jan 2019 11:57
It's difficult to understand what you are trying do to given the way you do it. Challenging the casualties figures is interesting but I don't see the point in proving that a web site such a "tankarchives" is wrong - and that seemed to be the focus of your initial post. I don't think anyone cares about "tankarchives".
The impetus for these threads are debates-trends on internet communities

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Re: The "myth" of German overclaiming analysed.

Post by Duncan_M » 11 Jan 2019 06:51

Cult Icon wrote:
10 Jan 2019 23:06
Mori wrote:
10 Jan 2019 11:57
It's difficult to understand what you are trying do to given the way you do it. Challenging the casualties figures is interesting but I don't see the point in proving that a web site such a "tankarchives" is wrong - and that seemed to be the focus of your initial post. I don't think anyone cares about "tankarchives".
The impetus for these threads are debates-trends on internet communities
Do you mean the new myth busting that seems to be squashing the previously popular uber effective German War Machine consensus? It seems this thread and others the OP created recently are designed solely to support the Wehraboo party line. Is that what you mean?

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Re: The "myth" of German overclaiming analysed.

Post by Cult Icon » 11 Jan 2019 15:16

no, partisan wrangling by tank fetishists. We all start somewhere....

A close reading of the OPs content show that he's targeting people who are anti-German armor on the internet and using a familiar set of arguments, largely derived from popular sources like Zaloga's Osprey runs that are very easy to find at bookstores. I enjoy these OPS personally, I have seen this stuff go down 5 plus years ago. But people tend to mature from this phase as they move away from internet communities and spend more time studying. The partisanship goes both directions. Wehraboo appears to be a term invented by millennials, you have people here that are twice the age of people on reddit or tank game forums.

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Re: The "myth" of German overclaiming analysed.

Post by Cult Icon » 11 Jan 2019 15:48

j keenan wrote:
10 Jan 2019 12:26

A summary of terrain for VIII Corps in BLUECOAT
The country itself is the closest "bocage" type at its fullest flower, for it abounds in orchards and small fields surrounded by banks
three or four feet high, often surmounted by thick hedges. A series of pronounced ridges extend to the south across the
axis of advance,whilst numerous streams in many places constitute tank obstacles owing to their width, depth or marshy approaches.
Good metalled roads are few and far between, and apart from the one leading southwards from Caumont to St.Martin
des Besaces,which is just wide enough for two-way traffic, there is little else except narrow farm tracks and by-roads,always
tortuous and often running between high banks and hedges, as in Devonshire.The area contains no places of any size, though
there are a few villages and isolated farm houses.
So from the above description it would be less than 200 meters in a lot of cases ?
Yeah a ballpark of 200 meters (close combat) due to foliage compartmentalization is IIRC what I've seen authors state for the Bocage in the US sector... however the British sector was more open

700-800 median/average from Anderson and Hanny isn't close enough for Panther tanks not to rotate into their "front facing" position per their tactical practices.

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Re: The "myth" of German overclaiming analysed.

Post by Gorque » 12 Jan 2019 00:53

Cult Icon wrote:
11 Jan 2019 15:16
Wehraboo appears to be a term invented by millennials, you have people here that are twice the age of people on reddit or tank game forums.

Thanks for explaining this as I was to lazy to look this term up and thought it was a derivation of "Yogi and Boo-Boo". Shows my age, doesn't it? :D

Hey Wehrboo-boo; lets go down to Jellystone Park and filch some pic-a-nic baskets!!!

Yogiiiiiii....Feldmarschall Schmidt is not going to like this.

:lol:

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Re: The "myth" of German overclaiming analysed.

Post by Peter89 » 13 Jan 2019 17:09

Cult Icon wrote:
11 Jan 2019 15:16
no, partisan wrangling by tank fetishists. We all start somewhere....

A close reading of the OPs content show that he's targeting people who are anti-German armor on the internet and using a familiar set of arguments, largely derived from popular sources like Zaloga's Osprey runs that are very easy to find at bookstores. I enjoy these OPS personally, I have seen this stuff go down 5 plus years ago. But people tend to mature from this phase as they move away from internet communities and spend more time studying. The partisanship goes both directions. Wehraboo appears to be a term invented by millennials, you have people here that are twice the age of people on reddit or tank game forums.
The farther we move from the events, the clearer the picture becomes. Regarding WW2 it is extremely difficult, because the political systems (such as EU, UN, Israel, ex-Eastern bloc, etc.) are all coming down from the treaties at the and of WW2. The culture and social science itself is very much influenced by it, eg. there are way too many Oscars and Nobel prizes are given for films and books about Holocaust. It's disproportionate in every sense. I firmly say it with Jewish Holocaust-survivor relatives. There's not many video games to fight on the Axis side, but the once Axis nations are widely identified as Nazis.

You can not easily start a conversation about the crimes of the winning side or the good things about the loser side. Let alone you can't point out the negative things on the Jews before WW2, because you will be automatically branded as an antisemitic guy or a filthy traitor.

Wehraboo effect is I think a reaction to the mainstream narration of WW2. Everybody knows that the Germans were a hard nut to crack and some of the U-Boot, fighter and tanker aces became widely infamous. So saying that they were imbecil loosers can be denied easily.

Also, everyone is entitled to have an opinion about history; and the sources vary in a fundamental way when it comes to WW2. So you can go and read piles of seemingly credible sources to support your vision about the events. Also, you can dismiss other piles of relevant sources, calling them forgeries.

I think this is what happens to people with closed minds and biased preconceptions. Eg. Wehraboos.

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Re: The "myth" of German overclaiming analysed.

Post by Cult Icon » 13 Jan 2019 17:28

Gorque wrote:
12 Jan 2019 00:53
Cult Icon wrote:
11 Jan 2019 15:16
Wehraboo appears to be a term invented by millennials, you have people here that are twice the age of people on reddit or tank game forums.

Thanks for explaining this as I was to lazy to look this term up and thought it was a derivation of "Yogi and Boo-Boo". Shows my age, doesn't it? :D

Hey Wehrboo-boo; lets go down to Jellystone Park and filch some pic-a-nic baskets!!!

Yogiiiiiii....Feldmarschall Schmidt is not going to like this.

:lol:
Thanks for bring up Yogi- bear- I miss this creature

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/wehraboo

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/weeaboo

I have not heard of this term until last year. It most likely originated from videogame forums and the word is a fusion of an unrelated interest (Japanese cartoons).

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