The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Discussions on High Command, strategy and the Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) in general.
wahidovic
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 29 Oct 2018 14:26
Location: france

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by wahidovic » 24 Dec 2018 11:15

on the off chance that Hitler had kept away from the Balkan entrapments and just assaulted straight ahead, taken Moscow, the Russians would been in a bad way. Had he been savvy (he wasn't), he could have enrolled the guide of the Ukranians and , the Baltic states from the get-go - they all detested the Russians (still do) and incalculable ethnic minorities who despised both the Russians and the Soviets. Indeed, even the White Russians of Belarus would have participate if Adolf had guaranteed them a semi autonomous country. Obviously Lebensraum-Adolf had different thoughts. The Germans ought to have shot the nitwit after the French battle and everything would have been okay.
Plex Kodi Lucky Patcher
thanks

User avatar
Robert Rojas
Member
Posts: 2658
Joined: 19 Nov 2002 04:29
Location: Pleasant Hill, California - U.S.A.

RE: The Worst Moment For Germans On The Eastern Front.

Post by Robert Rojas » 24 Dec 2018 16:37

Greetings to both citizen wahidovic and the community as a whole. Howdy wahidovic! Well sir OR madam, in deference to your point OR points-of-view as articulated within your posting of Monday - December 24, 2018 - 2:15am, old yours truly is of the school of thought that it is doubtful that Adolf Hitler's heir apparent would have pursued the geopolitical aims as prescribed within MEIN KAMPF. After the inconclusive aerial Battle of Britain, both Herman Göring and the leadership of the Fatherland's military establishment argued for a Mediterranean strategy. Yes, at least in terms of a WHAT IF hypothetical scenario anyway, the whole complexion of the conflict in Europe would have taken an entirely different character after the planned OR accidental demise of the all knowing Bohemian Corporal not long after the Armistice of Compiegne. Incidentally, there are a few of us out here who hold the belief that there might have never been a Second World War, much less a German initiated WAR IN THE EAST, if Herman Göring had been the Fatherland's head of state. It's just some speculative food for thought. Borsht anyone? Well, that's my latest two cents, centimes, pence, pfennigs or kopecks worth on this Teutonic road trip into the primordial hinterlands of the Motherland - for now anyway. In any case, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in your corner of La Belle France. Au Revoir!

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :idea: :| :welcome:
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee

Stiltzkin
Member
Posts: 1071
Joined: 11 Apr 2016 12:29
Location: Germany

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Stiltzkin » 24 Dec 2018 23:06

Define "worst". In terms of comfort, probably the winter of 1941 and 1942 (especially during the envelopment).
Casualty wise, for the Heer:
"bisherige Höchstmonatsverluste", the highest losses sustained during a month,
41,019 KIA (August 1941),
147,748 WIA (August 1941), since the Red Army performed better in 1941 than in 1944.

The double setbacks on both fronts:
60,024 KIA (August 1944)
190,235 WIA (July 1944)
402,110 MIA (August 44)

User avatar
Robert Rojas
Member
Posts: 2658
Joined: 19 Nov 2002 04:29
Location: Pleasant Hill, California - U.S.A.

RE: The Worst Moment For The Germans On The Eastern Front - (Well Sort Of But Not Really).

Post by Robert Rojas » 25 Dec 2018 01:32

Greetings to both citizen Stiltzkin and the community as a whole. Howdy Rumple! Well sir, in respect to your posting of Monday - December 24, 2018 - 2:06pm, since old yours truly is not at all clear to whom you are addressing your specific inquiry of DEFINE "WORST", I will defer your question to the author of this thread. Please refer to citizen Jesk's introductory posting of Sunday - August 26, 2018 - 11:58pm. I am supremely confident that our erstwhile citizen Jesk will provide you with the equivalent of a Doctoral Thesis on the subject. Good luck to you! Well, that's my latest two Yankee cents worth on this sojourn down Merriam Webster lane - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in your corner of the Fatherland. Auf Wiedersehen!


Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :idea: :|
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee

AriX
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 08:07
Location: Ukraine

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by AriX » 07 Jan 2019 19:29

Imo, there were two of them -
1st - after Stalingrad was encirceled and there were a huge chances of AG "A" beign traped on North Caucasus.
2nd- after operation "Zitadelle" failed and entire southern flank of Eastern front start to collapse.

jesk
Banned
Posts: 1973
Joined: 04 Aug 2017 08:19
Location: Belarus

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 07 Jan 2019 19:44

AriX wrote:
07 Jan 2019 19:29
Imo, there were two of them -
1st - after Stalingrad was encirceled and there were a huge chances of AG "A" beign traped on North Caucasus.
2nd- after operation "Zitadelle" failed and entire southern flank of Eastern front start to collapse.
2/3 group of armies "А" remained in the Caucasus. 5 divisions which departed through Rostov Germans could compensate them. Then, in February-March, 1943, after reduction of the front near Rzhev, 32 divisions are directed to other sites. The possibility of a decisive victory over Wehrmacht in 1943 is the myth. Only after opening of fronts in Italy, France, placements of large German forces in the Balkans.
The southern flank after "Citadel" not very failed. Resources left on the West and by March, 1944 there was a starvation of defensive opportunities. But by May the situation was corrected. Approach of the Red Army was stopped everywhere.

Stiltzkin
Member
Posts: 1071
Joined: 11 Apr 2016 12:29
Location: Germany

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Stiltzkin » 07 Jan 2019 23:00

2/3 group of armies "А" remained in the Caucasus. 5 divisions which departed through Rostov Germans could compensate them. Then, in February-March, 1943, after reduction of the front near Rzhev, 32 divisions are directed to other sites. The possibility of a decisive victory over Wehrmacht in 1943 is the myth. Only after opening of fronts in Italy, France, placements of large German forces in the Balkans.
The southern flank after "Citadel" not very failed. Resources left on the West and by March, 1944 there was a starvation of defensive opportunities. But by May the situation was corrected. Approach of the Red Army was stopped everywhere.
I would not be so sure. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 015.998134
The other fronts were just the last nail in the coffin, which made further intervention impossible, but it is true, Army Group Center was not destroyed before the summer offensives in 1944.

jesk
Banned
Posts: 1973
Joined: 04 Aug 2017 08:19
Location: Belarus

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 08 Jan 2019 09:01

Stiltzkin wrote:
07 Jan 2019 23:00
2/3 group of armies "А" remained in the Caucasus. 5 divisions which departed through Rostov Germans could compensate them. Then, in February-March, 1943, after reduction of the front near Rzhev, 32 divisions are directed to other sites. The possibility of a decisive victory over Wehrmacht in 1943 is the myth. Only after opening of fronts in Italy, France, placements of large German forces in the Balkans.
The southern flank after "Citadel" not very failed. Resources left on the West and by March, 1944 there was a starvation of defensive opportunities. But by May the situation was corrected. Approach of the Red Army was stopped everywhere.
I would not be so sure. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 015.998134
The other fronts were just the last nail in the coffin, which made further intervention impossible, but it is true, Army Group Center was not destroyed before the summer offensives in 1944.
There the reason in inadequate replenishment. Resources left on formation of connections in Europe.

Image

http://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.ph ... 3-1945.pdf

jesk
Banned
Posts: 1973
Joined: 04 Aug 2017 08:19
Location: Belarus

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 08 Jan 2019 17:23

Germany could win with an army of 1 million people. But with flexible tactics. For positional defense at the front of 2000 km of forces was not enough. With this kind of defense, many divisions are tied to squares, the enemy gets a number of advantages, even with an equal ratio of forces!

Erwinn
Member
Posts: 107
Joined: 17 Dec 2014 09:53
Location: Istanbul

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Erwinn » 11 Jan 2019 07:29

When Hitler appointed himself as Chief of Staff.

He was giving such a stupid orders all the time that British SIS was eventually decided to shelf their plan of assassinating him. They thought, "His stupid orders are helping us winning the war, why get rid of him?"

Stiltzkin
Member
Posts: 1071
Joined: 11 Apr 2016 12:29
Location: Germany

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Stiltzkin » 11 Jan 2019 08:28

This thread is kind of moving in the realm of fantasy.

jesk
Banned
Posts: 1973
Joined: 04 Aug 2017 08:19
Location: Belarus

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 11 Jan 2019 08:40


User avatar
Robert Rojas
Member
Posts: 2658
Joined: 19 Nov 2002 04:29
Location: Pleasant Hill, California - U.S.A.

RE: The Worst Moment For The Germans On The Eastern Front - (Well Sort Of But Not Really).

Post by Robert Rojas » 11 Jan 2019 15:40

Greetings to both citizen Stilzkin and the community as a whole. Howdy Rumple! Well sir, in light of your comment of Thursday - January 10, 2019 - 11:28pm, old yours truly would contend that this "TOPIC" crossed over into the realm of fantasy long ago. Remember, like the all knowing Bohemian Corporal himself, our dear citizen Jesk holds an undisputed monopoly on what passes for "truth" and just like the all knowing Bohemian Corporal, who are any of us to dare question his infallibility? I occasionally wonder what citizen Jesk actually does for a living. Well, that's my latest two Yankee cents worth on this continuing parody in megalomania - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in your corner of the Fatherland - Auf Wiedersehen!


Best Regards
Uncle Bob :idea: :roll: :|
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee

jesk
Banned
Posts: 1973
Joined: 04 Aug 2017 08:19
Location: Belarus

Re: RE: The Worst Moment For The Germans On The Eastern Front - (Well Sort Of But Not Really).

Post by jesk » 11 Jan 2019 16:58

I lean on the facts, others, in my opinion, push the wretched worldview. Specified a post above the previous comment on flexible tactics and in general a possibility of a victory of Wehrmacht by forces in 1 million people. :)

Sid Guttridge
Member
Posts: 7643
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 11:19

Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Sid Guttridge » 12 Jan 2019 10:59

Clearly Stalingrad.

Before it the Germans had clear tactical and operational superiority, could still make major strategic decisions and could still convince themselves that they had some prospect of winning the wider war, or at least achieving a compromise peace on advantageous terms compared with 1939.

After it, they lost their biggest single army, any air of operational superiority and had to be responsive strategically to their foes.

Following Stalingrad the Allies felt confident enough of winning to demand unconditional surrender.

Sid

Return to “German Strategy & General German Military Discussion”