The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

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jesk
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The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 27 Aug 2018 08:58

In December 1941, Hitler decided on the offensive in the next year only one group of armies "South". The Germans will never, never again be able to threaten Moscow and Leningrad. This was the unconditional surrender of German generals to Hitler.

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Thoddy » 27 Aug 2018 09:33

The worst moment for the Germans was the moment, when Hitler decided to start "Fall Weiss".
"Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!"

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 28 Aug 2018 06:11

1492 was not a critical point for the Spaniards. Like the colonization of English by different parts of the world. Poland and Russia, as a military force, without Hitler, the war of the conquistadors with the natives. A sharp decrease in the number of prisoners in 1942 is due to the lack of activity of Army Group North and Center. The offensive to the south was personally led by Hitler and made many mistakes.

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Hitler wanted to lose the war, I do not shy of it. Set of data indicate him as Germany's main enemy. He was engaged in sabotage in the military field.

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Peter89 » 28 Aug 2018 06:57

The lack of activity of HGN and HGM in 1942?

HGN was fighting off the Sinavinyo Offensive and HGM was fighting for its survival in the battles of Rhzev.

David Glantz even argues in Zhukov's greatest defeat that Operation Mars was just as equally important as Uranus.

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Ironmachine
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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Ironmachine » 28 Aug 2018 06:59

jesk wrote:1492 was not a critical point for the Spaniards.
Actually, it was; it's just that you don't know the meaning of "critical". :lol:
jesk wrote:Hitler wanted to lose the war, I do not shy of it.
But he was very bad at it. He needed five years and the opposition of most of the world to achieve his goals! :lol:

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 28 Aug 2018 08:21

Ironmachine wrote:
jesk wrote:1492 was not a critical point for the Spaniards.
Actually, it was; it's just that you don't know the meaning of "critical". :lol:
Mexico and Argentina speak Spanish. Brazil in Portuguese. And it's funny. :lol:

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Ironmachine wrote:
jesk wrote:Hitler wanted to lose the war, I do not shy of it.
But he was very bad at it. He needed five years and the opposition of most of the world to achieve his goals! :lol:
That was part of the plan. Germans capitulated in May 1945 in Italy, Yugoslavia, Latvia, Norway, Czechoslovakia, Poland. Preservation of all German armies within Germany precluded the possibility of its surrender.

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Ironmachine » 28 Aug 2018 18:01

jesk wrote:Mexico and Argentina speak Spanish. Brazil in Portuguese. And it's funny. :lol:
I would like to laugh, too. If only I could know what is the point of your remark!
jesk wrote:That was part of the plan. Germans capitulated in May 1945 in Italy, Yugoslavia, Latvia, Norway, Czechoslovakia, Poland. Preservation of all German armies within Germany precluded the possibility of its surrender.
Then the plan was a piece of shit. I could have lost World War II far better than Hitler.

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 28 Aug 2018 18:29

Peter89 wrote:
28 Aug 2018 06:57
The lack of activity of HGN and HGM in 1942?

HGN was fighting off the Sinavinyo Offensive and HGM was fighting for its survival in the battles of Rhzev.

David Glantz even argues in Zhukov's greatest defeat that Operation Mars was just as equally important as Uranus.
I am not talking about that. On the lack of initiative. The Germans withstood the attack of Zhukov, if they themselves went on the offensive, his front could simply disappear.

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 28 Aug 2018 18:37

Ironmachine wrote:
28 Aug 2018 18:01
jesk wrote:Mexico and Argentina speak Spanish. Brazil in Portuguese. And it's funny. :lol:
I would like to laugh, too. If only I could know what is the point of your remark!
Sense in an absolutely safe for Germany attack on Poland and the USSR. Opponents of different weight categories.
jesk wrote:That was part of the plan. Germans capitulated in May 1945 in Italy, Yugoslavia, Latvia, Norway, Czechoslovakia, Poland. Preservation of all German armies within Germany precluded the possibility of its surrender.
Then the plan was a piece of shit. I could have lost World War II far better than Hitler.
You would not have succeeded. Strong opposition to defeat within Germany forced to go the other way.
Hundreds and hundreds of mistakes. I have reason to assume that he made them specially. Hitler was not easily, probably constantly in a stressful situation.

https://everipedia.org/wiki/Undercover_operation/
To go "undercover" is to avoid detection by the entity one is observing, and especially to disguise one's own identity or use an assumed identity for the purposes of gaining the trust of an individual or organization to learn or confirm confidential information or to gain the trust of targeted individuals in order to gather information or evidence. Traditionally, it is a technique employed by law enforcement agencies or private investigators, and a person who works in such a role is commonly referred to as an undercover agent.

There are two principal problems that can affect agents working in undercover roles. The first is the maintenance of identity and the second is the reintegration back into normal duty.

Living a double life in a new environment presents many problems. Undercover work is one of the most stressful jobs a special agent can undertake. The largest cause of stress identified is the separation of an agent from friends, family and his normal environment. This simple isolation can lead to depression and anxiety. There is no data on the divorce rates of agents, but strain on relationships does occur.This can be a result of a need for secrecy and an inability to share work problems, and the unpredictable work schedule, personality and lifestyle changes and the length of separation can all result in problems for relationships.

Stress can also result from an apparent lack of direction of the investigation or not knowing when it will end. The amount of elaborate planning, risk, and expenditure can pressure an agent to succeed, which can cause considerable stress. The stress that an undercover agent faces is considerably different from his counterparts on regular duties, whose main source of stress is the administration and the bureaucracy. As the undercover agents are removed from the bureaucracy, it may result in another problem. The lack of the usual controls of a uniform, badge, constant supervision, a fixed place of work, or (often) a set assignment could, combined with their continual contact with the organized crime, increase the likelihood for corruption.

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 28 Aug 2018 19:54

On this map i designated the meaninglessness of resistance in the south. The mountainous terrain is not easily accessible for combat operations. All that is horizontal to the south of Prague, the outcome of the war had no influence. Hitler specially held there many troops for the convenience of the occupation of Germany.

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Ironmachine » 29 Aug 2018 07:08

jesk wrote:Sense in an absolutely safe for Germany attack on Poland and the USSR. Opponents of different weight categories.
Yes. It was absolutely safe for Germany to attack the USSR. Of course. It's evident (he says while slowly retreating towards the door because, you know, staying around crazy people is generally not safe...)
jesk wrote:You would not have succeeded. Strong opposition to defeat within Germany forced to go the other way.
Hundreds and hundreds of mistakes. I have reason to assume that he made them specially. Hitler was not easily, probably constantly in a stressful situation.
Yes, I would have succeeded. I can lose a world war far better than Mr. Hitler. If he made hundreds and hundreds of mistakes, I can make thousands and thousands of them. (As you can see, I can do nonsense as easily as you).
Anyway, what strong opposition could he face when you have told that already by the end of 1941 the German generals had surrendered unconditionally to Hitler? (Don't worry, it's kind of a rhetorical question? Kind of because I'm sure that you are going to answer, but I don't expect your answer to make any sense).
jesk wrote:https://everipedia.org/wiki/Undercover_operation/
To go "undercover" is to avoid detection by the entity one is observing, and especially to disguise one's own identity or use an assumed identity for the purposes of gaining the trust of an individual or organization to learn or confirm confidential information or to gain the trust of targeted individuals in order to gather information or evidence. Traditionally, it is a technique employed by law enforcement agencies or private investigators, and a person who works in such a role is commonly referred to as an undercover agent.

There are two principal problems that can affect agents working in undercover roles. The first is the maintenance of identity and the second is the reintegration back into normal duty.

Living a double life in a new environment presents many problems. Undercover work is one of the most stressful jobs a special agent can undertake. The largest cause of stress identified is the separation of an agent from friends, family and his normal environment. This simple isolation can lead to depression and anxiety. There is no data on the divorce rates of agents, but strain on relationships does occur.This can be a result of a need for secrecy and an inability to share work problems, and the unpredictable work schedule, personality and lifestyle changes and the length of separation can all result in problems for relationships.

Stress can also result from an apparent lack of direction of the investigation or not knowing when it will end. The amount of elaborate planning, risk, and expenditure can pressure an agent to succeed, which can cause considerable stress. The stress that an undercover agent faces is considerably different from his counterparts on regular duties, whose main source of stress is the administration and the buraucracy. As the undercover agents are removed from the bureaucracy, it may result in another problem. The lack of the usual controls of a uniform, badge, constant supervision, a fixed place of work, or (often) a set assignment could, combined with their continual contact with the organized crime, increase the likelihood for corruption.
So Hitler was livin' la vida loca! :lol:

Peter89
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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Peter89 » 29 Aug 2018 09:19

jesk wrote:
28 Aug 2018 18:29
Peter89 wrote:
28 Aug 2018 06:57
The lack of activity of HGN and HGM in 1942?

HGN was fighting off the Sinavinyo Offensive and HGM was fighting for its survival in the battles of Rhzev.

David Glantz even argues in Zhukov's greatest defeat that Operation Mars was just as equally important as Uranus.
I am not talking about that. On the lack of initiative. The Germans withstood the attack of Zhukov, if they themselves went on the offensive, his front could simply disappear.
It seems I lost my long comment on this.

AGM was conducting Operation Hannover and Operation Seydlitz as offensives, but soon they were forced to go on the defense against the first and second Rhzev-Sychevka offensive operations (the latter also called Operation Mars). They didn't lack the initiative, but their forces were only enough to hold the lines and eliminating Soviet spearheads.

AGN was actually planning a series of offensives against Leningrad, the bridgehead of Oranienbaum and the Volkhov Front. They even received powerful and experienced reinforcements after the fall of Sevastopol (11th Army). The Soviets disrupted the German plans by attacking first, and although they failed ultimately, the Germans also used up all their resources to repell their attacks. Hardly a sign of the lack of initiative.

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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 29 Aug 2018 20:19

It is appropriate to quote Andrey Kuptsov. The war was not a confrontation of enemies. Russians, Americans and Englishmen used Hitler's mistakes.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=
The main enemy of Hitler Germany - Comrade Adolf A. Hitler: everything that he did as supreme commander in chief and as head of state, should lead to one goal. This goal - the defeat of the German army and defeat in the war of the German state. These actions were the product of conscious willful choice.

Despite the paranoid tone of such a statement, it logically inevitably follows from all known events of the history of the Second World War.

For anyone who was seriously interested in the war of 1939-1945 and read the postwar literature from all directions - from textbooks and analytical reports to the memoirs of participants and the works of art of the front-line writers (naturally, from the "one" and this side) - a completely permissible evaluation of war. This is not a confrontation of enemies, but the use of mistakes of the enemy. And these mistakes are inexplicably primitive, they could be avoided, the result of an erroneous decision was predictable, everything is clear, but ... but nothing.
Peter89 wrote:
29 Aug 2018 09:19
It seems I lost my long comment on this.

AGM was conducting Operation Hannover and Operation Seydlitz as offensives, but soon they were forced to go on the defense against the first and second Rhzev-Sychevka offensive operations (the latter also called Operation Mars). They didn't lack the initiative, but their forces were only enough to hold the lines and eliminating Soviet spearheads.

AGN was actually planning a series of offensives against Leningrad, the bridgehead of Oranienbaum and the Volkhov Front. They even received powerful and experienced reinforcements after the fall of Sevastopol (11th Army). The Soviets disrupted the German plans by attacking first, and although they failed ultimately, the Germans also used up all their resources to repell their attacks. Hardly a sign of the lack of initiative.
The problem is bigger. In February-March 1943, after the withdrawal from Demyansk and Rzhev, the front line was reduced and the Germans liberated 32 divisions to other sections of the front. So simple . 32 divisions appeared from the air. In 1942 they expected a future attack on Moscow. Hitler stretched the front line, tied troops to territories.

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Peter89
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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by Peter89 » 29 Aug 2018 22:15

You can say the same on to any psycho autocrats.

Just look at my country of origin, Hungary. It should be better for the ruling elite to provide better education, more freedom of thought, etc. because the people could earn more, so the elite could steal more. If Hungary would be three times as rich as she is now, they could steal three times more.

But no.

That's not how a psycho autocrat thinks. They'd rather steal less than giving up control. Hitler was quite the same.

jesk
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Re: The worst moment for Germans on the Eastern front

Post by jesk » 30 Aug 2018 05:09

In Hungary, for example, and Spain, the low productivity of nations. The European Union, which arose after the defeat of the Axis in the World War, enables poor nations to live better than they could. In Germany the standard of living would be like in Qatar, Spain's salaries 400 euros. The name one is Europeans. But the difference in the productivity of nations is colossal.
Religious people before the war were expecting the arrival of a great leader, who would bring order to the planet. The United Nations, the European Union, NATO, the currency of the euro about all this, Hitler could say - I did it.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=
The Muslims of Persia, Arabia, Turkestan solemnly keep the legend of Muntazar, which in the near future will lay the foundation of the New Era. "..."
High Japanese scientists openly speak about the coming Avatar. Educated Brahmins, drawing wisdom from Vishnu Purana and the Deva-Bhagavata Purana, will say beautiful texts about Kalki-Avatar. And add that this New Era, unlike the past, will come swiftly. "..."
In 1924, a learned lama, a worthy disciple of the founder of the monastery, told us, standing in front of the image of the Lord of the future:
"It's true that the time of the Great Coming has approached.On our prophecies, the era of Shambhala has already begun.Rigden Japo, the Lord of Shambhala, is already preparing his unconquerable army for the last battle, all His employees and Leaders have already incarnated." ... "
In the monastery of Chumby, there is a large image of the last battle of Shambhala. In this picture you can see a lot of warriors hurrying from all over the world to take part in the great battle of spiritual victory. "Another lama said:
"Tradition from the old Tibetan book." Under the symbolic names, the movements of the Dalai Lama and the Tashi Lama, already fulfilled, are described there, and special physical signs of rulers are described, under which the country falls under the monkeys' control, but then recovers, and then somebody comes. the term can be counted in twelve years. "This will be released in 1936." "..."

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