Bonnie & Clyde (Full-Auto Weapons) ?

[Hans1906]

Sorry for something OT, but I'm interested in one question ?

The other night, there was a docu about Bonnie & Clyde on the german TV, another USA production...
How was it possible for Clyde Barrow to get hold of these fully automatic weapons, the Browning BAR is an example.

Unfortunately, it was not mentioned, whether the gang also had the so-called "Tommy Gun" in their possession.

You probably couldn't just buy the Browning BAR in a gun shop back then, could you?


Hans

[OpanaPointer]

Didn't scan the article but it's a lot of information. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic

[Hans1906]

Hi OpanaPointer,

your link does not work, I know about the Browning BAR, but how was Clyde able to get several of them ?

And where did the man find the right ammunition ?


Hans

[peeved]

Stolen from National Guard armouries:

Clyde’s go-to firearm was a modified M1918 BAR. In 1932, a fellow criminal gave Clyde two BARs stolen from a Missouri National Guard armory. He instantly saw the advantages of the automatic rifle’s powerful cartridge, high rate of fire, and the ability to reload quickly with spare magazines. This kind of firepower was way beyond what local and state police, or even the FBI, had at the time.

A year later, the gang conducted two National Guard armory robberies, one in Oklahoma and another in Illinois, scoring several BARs, M1911 pistols, Model 11 shotguns, and a bunch of M1917 revolvers. Plus, they scored a whole lot of ammo and magazines.

From https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/firea ... -and-clyde

Fully automatic firearms could be bought unrestricted by the so inclined until the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Markus

[Hans1906]

Fully automatic firearms could be bought unrestricted by the so inclined until the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Thanks Markus,

so a "Tommy-Gun" was available to every private citizen, if he could afford the submachine gun at all ?

Good gods, you just have to imagine something like that, unbelievable..!


Hans

[ThatZenoGuy]

Fully automatic firearms could be bought unrestricted by the so inclined until the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Thanks Markus,

so a "Tommy-Gun" was available to every private citizen, if he could afford the submachine gun at all ?

Good gods, you just have to imagine something like that, unbelievable..!


Hans

I mean submachineguns, assault rifles, belt fed machineguns, and even howitzers are fully legal in America to this very day...

If you have the cash, and a lot of paperwork.

[Hans1906]

As far as I know, German submachine guns were illegal between the two world wars. Of course, there were criminals who used such weapons.

I was able to acquire an original "Thompson" in the late 1970s, an "M1A1", a rarity in Germany at the time.

A nasty gun, heavy as a tank and hard to keep on target, an american piece of iron.

The Thompson M1 I never had in my hands, was not to be found here in Germany at that time.


Hans

[Hans1906]

Millers Crossing Danny Boy Scene




I wouldn't want such a gun in my house today, see above!

Hollywood!


Hans

[von thoma]

Two members of the Dillinger gang with a BAR.

Movie " Dillinger " (1973), by John Millius.

[wirklich]

Things were completely different in the United States. During this time period there were National Guard Armories all over the United States, even in very small towns. In the 1920s -30's 5/6 of the US military strength was national Guard or Army reserve. Civilian soldiers.
Weapons stored there were under lock and key but there were no guards there. They had everything from Handguns/rifles, Bar's, Thompson's and even water cooled .30 machineguns. A lot of weapons were stolen.
Bonnie Parker was very proficient with a BAR.
Colt made the Colt Monitor, their version of the BAR, it was for sale to civilians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Bro ... atic_Rifle see civilian use, criminal and law enforcement use.
Clyde had a BAR he had modified, shorter barrel and a welded 40-round magazine.
They weigh approximately 24 pounds and fired single shot have almost no recoil.
If you had the money, you could buy Thompsons. $175-$200. tps://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/775226 ... t-1-john-t
https://www.historicalfirearms.info/pos ... -the-first
Thompsons could be bought at Hardware stores.
You need long arms to shoot the one with the vertical foregrip. It is a long reach.

[Poot]

Well done, wirklich.

A BAR shot in prone has practically no recoil at all, even in fully automatic mode. Earlier versions had two full-auto modes, 'Slow' and 'Fast.'

[wirklich]

Hi OpanaPointer,

your link does not work, I know about the Browning BAR, but how was Clyde able to get several of them ?

And where did the man find the right ammunition?


Hans

.30-06 Springfield was and still is common cartridge. You could buy it anywhere. What was used back then and what the military used (flat base bullet) into the 1970s was not as powerful as the commercial (boat tail bullet) ammunition became. The more powerful ammunition can damage the parts of the gas system on military weapons. It also had a greater range and could not be used on some of the early military shooting ranges.

[wirklich]

Fully automatic firearms could be bought unrestricted by the so inclined until the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Thanks Markus,

so a "Tommy-Gun" was available to every private citizen, if he could afford the submachine gun at all ?

Good gods, you just have to imagine something like that, unbelievable..!


Hans

I mean submachineguns, assault rifles, belt fed machineguns, and even howitzers are fully legal in America to this very day...

If you have the cash, and a lot of paperwork.

Well, if you find that bizarre...The U.S Government had a program Called the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) during this time period and up till about the 70's-80's when the Democrats tried to kill it. It became the Civilian Marksmanship Program and lost government funding. But it still is in business and still gets military weapons from Uncle Sam. Mainly the M1 rifle. US rifle caliber .30 M1, Garand.
Back in the 1930's you could buy a military bolt action rifle from the DCM. Even a new National Match model, the most accurate rifle the military used. If you needed to have it repaired, you could send it back to the same arsenal the military used for complete rebuilding.
They still have the National Matches at Camp Perry every year.
In the past you could leave your M1 with one of the U.S. Army armorers at the National Match and some of them would rebuild it for you over night for free.
The CMP still sells the M1 and some bolt action rifles, M1 carbines when they can get them from government, most now are returns from foreign governments now. Some from the National Guard were rebuilt in the 60's-70's and never reissued.
There was a time when the U.S. government promoted gun ownership and wanted civilians to know how to shoot. That was one of the reasons the DCM was started.
https://thecmp.org/cmp-national-matches/
Need ammo? Just a few years ago you could buy a thousand or more HXP or LC .30 and have it delivered by Fed X. Really. The size of your purse was your limit.

[ThatZenoGuy]

Fully automatic firearms could be bought unrestricted by the so inclined until the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Thanks Markus,

so a "Tommy-Gun" was available to every private citizen, if he could afford the submachine gun at all ?

Good gods, you just have to imagine something like that, unbelievable..!


Hans

I mean submachineguns, assault rifles, belt fed machineguns, and even howitzers are fully legal in America to this very day...

If you have the cash, and a lot of paperwork.

Well, if you find that bizarre...The U.S Government had a program Called the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) during this time period and up till about the 70's-80's when the Democrats tried to kill it. It became the Civilian Marksmanship Program and lost government funding. But it still is in business and still gets military weapons from Uncle Sam. Mainly the M1 rifle. US rifle caliber .30 M1, Garand.
Back in the 1930's you could buy a military bolt action rifle from the DCM. Even a new National Match model, the most accurate rifle the military used. If you needed to have it repaired, you could send it back to the same arsenal the military used for complete rebuilding.
They still have the National Matches at Camp Perry every year.
In the past you could leave your M1 with one of the U.S. Army armorers at the National Match and some of them would rebuild it for you over night for free.
The CMP still sells the M1 and some bolt action rifles, M1 carbines when they can get them from government, most now are returns from foreign governments now. Some from the National Guard were rebuilt in the 60's-70's and never reissued.
There was a time when the U.S. government promoted gun ownership and wanted civilians to know how to shoot. That was one of the reasons the DCM was started.
https://thecmp.org/cmp-national-matches/
Need ammo? Just a few years ago you could buy a thousand or more HXP or LC .30 and have it delivered by Fed X. Really. The size of your purse was your limit.

Man, that sounds awesome.

I'd love to get myself a match-grade military bolt action rifle, although nowadays I bet they're more expensive than the usual car, at least for the WW2 models.

[Poot]

[/quote]
Man, that sounds awesome.

I'd love to get myself a match-grade military bolt action rifle, although nowadays I bet they're more expensive than the usual car, at least for the WW2 models.
[/quote]

It is

My two M1 Garands were from the CMP, delivered to my door. They're a great organization.

I always found their pricing to be very reasonable, and they always offered quality products. I still have cans of M2 Ball 30-06 ammo from them. I'm not aware of any option that would allow a customer to request a WWII-dated rifle, as they structure their pricing based on overall condition:
https://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle-sales/