Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
Konstantin
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Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 20 Sep 2013 21:04

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Best regards.
Konstantyn
abramenko.konstantyn@gmail.com

Konstantin
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Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 21 Sep 2013 09:19

In news releases TV channel "CAT" show announcement on the establishment of the monument to the transfer of fortification of the Second World War.
The broadcast will air next week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 9bSo_fnqO4

Konstantin
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Posts: 204
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Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 27 Sep 2013 20:04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... XzVZEzGZ2w

Here's a report was at the Donetsk regional television channel "TV Union." Unfortunately, very rainy September prevents us from continuing work on this project.

Best regards.
Konstantyn
abramenko.konstantyn@gmail.com

Below are the details of the bank account to help:

Beneficiary: acc. 038-26255111765
NAME ABRAMENKO KONSTIANTYN IGOROVICH, INN 2533114239
ADRESS KRAMATORSK b-r MASHINOSTROITELEY 2-16
Bank of Beneficiary : Raiffeisen Bank AVAL
Donetsk, UKRAINE
SWIFT: AVAL UA UK DON
Correspondent bank : acc 9470329 10
SWIFT: DEUTDEFF

CORRESPONDENT BANKS OF AVAL BANK OUTSIDE THE C.I.S.
(NOSTRO ACCOUNTS)
Bank Name and Citi: Deutsche Bank AG, Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
Account Number: 9470329 10
Currency: EUR
S.W.I.F.T. BIC: DEUTDEFF

Bank Name and Citi: Raiffeisen Zentralbank Oesterreich, Vienna, Avstria
Account Number: 55022305
Currency: EUR
S.W.I.F.T. BIC: RZBAATWW

ATTENTION!
Please, be advised that according to the current legislative acts of Ukraine, we cannot accept payment in favour of the beneficiary if this payment originates from entrepreneurial activity of any kind. So, please, refrain from usinh such definitions as «contract», «bill », «invoice» etc. In details of payment (field #70 or # 72).

Raiffeisen Bank AVAL
OFFICE: 46V, F. ZAITZEVA STR., 83086, DONETSK, UKRAINE
TEL: (062) 337-19-13, (062) 337-25-47 TELEX: 631032 AVAL UX
S.W.I.F.T.: AVAL UA UK DON
Thi

Konstantin
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Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 02 Oct 2013 20:34

Good evening!

I ask your help in the next question. We have a new sponsor, steel company. Which will help us to produce anti obstacles - "hedgehogs". I know that there is a "hedgehog" of different designs - German, Czech, ... What we need is German, we strive for the greatest possible authenticity. I request all relevant colleagues to help - we need the size, overall, the size of the profile and others. Тhank you.

Best regards.
Konstantyn
abramenko.konstantyn@gmail.com

Carl Schwamberger
Host - Allied sections
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Location: USA

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 03 Oct 2013 01:55

This has been a interesting read. I will be providing the link to other people who may be interested. Thanks for posting this description.

Це було цікаво читати. Я буду надавати посилання на інших людей WHOI може зацікавити. Дякуємо за розміщення цього опису.

Konstantin
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Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 03 Oct 2013 08:56

Carl Schwamberger wrote:This has been a interesting read. I will be providing the link to other people who may be interested. Thanks for posting this description.

Це було цікаво читати. Я буду надавати посилання на інших людей WHOI може зацікавити. Дякуємо за розміщення цього опису.
Hi Carl,

I am very grateful to you for such a positive review. And for that you have duplicated the message in the Ukrainian language.

Best regards.
Konstantyn

Konstantin
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Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 03 Oct 2013 09:12

I found the threads and posts on this forum, where the previously discussed these "hedgehogs". And even found the information about the length of line segments L-profile. As I understand it, there were two sizes. Why? But especially interesute size shelves L-profile, I can not find this size. I really hope for your help. Any information is very important to us - we'd like to have the position of a few copies of the authentic German "hedgehogs".

Best regards.
Konstantyn

sebas379
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Joined: 23 Jun 2012 15:36
Location: Netherlands

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by sebas379 » 03 Oct 2013 10:45

I am by no means an expert on the matter, but if I made a guess, it would be that hedgehogs and other anti-tank obstacles grew in size as the vehicles they were designed to stop grew in size as well. After all, an obstacle that might be perfectly fine to stop a mk. III panzer might not be able to stop a tiger tank or IS-2. I would assume that, as the size of tanks increased, so did the obstacles designed to stop them.

Now, of course that doesn't help a lot, but if I were to draw a conclusion based on this assumption, a 1944 anti-tank obstacle would be of the large type. I have, however, NO scientific or documented evidence whatsoever to back this idea up, it's purely a theory on my part!!!

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JTG
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Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by JTG » 04 Oct 2013 00:53

Hi Konstantyn,

could you give us a sense of what the older ladies in the clips are saying? Are they for or against your project?


John

PS The contact details for the reporters would be VERY interesting as well! <G>: you have some very nice young ladies!

Konstantin
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Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 04 Oct 2013 07:11

JTG wrote:Hi Konstantyn,

could you give us a sense of what the older ladies in the clips are saying? Are they for or against your project?


John

PS The contact details for the reporters would be VERY interesting as well! <G>: you have some very nice young ladies!
Hi John,

this elderly lady said the following. That she was living in the immediate vicinity of the bunker in 1958. Her father in law, who lived through the occupation by German troops Kramators'k often told her about those times. That participated in the construction of the bunker Soviet prisoners of war. That during the battle for the city in September 1943, this bunker on the Soviet soldiers fired machine gun - only the soldiers will be out of the woods and try to cross the floodplain, the German soldiers shot them all. What a lot of Soviet soldiers were killed in the assault of the mountain slope. About how, in 1970 this bunker city authorities wanted to destroy, and they have failed.
Not only is this woman, a great many people are very positively to the changes around them. Even due to the fact that earlier this place was a dump for rubbish, shelter vagrants, alcoholics and drug addicts. Now things have changed and these changes in their delight.

Best regards.
Konstantyn

P.S. Ukrainian women - the most beautiful and soul in the world! My wife is like that. But here I can not help you, it is necessary for you to try yourself))

Konstantin
Member
Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 06 Oct 2013 06:46

Dear colleagues, I, like you, with hope, and I look forward to Gismeteo "Indian summer." When can we meet on the subject and anything else useful to have time to do. Prior to the final cold. And yet ... While the wrap up in blankets, drinking hot tea and ... Watch video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YZn69kP018
Bunker in Kramatorsk. TV channel SAT. Full version

Konstantin
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Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 14 Oct 2013 11:14

Hi!

October 12, we still got to the site. After nearly six weeks of continuous rain. It was decided to do landscaping, terrain and plan to dig trenches. I arrived on the scene first - was a heavy fog.

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Konstantin
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Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 14 Oct 2013 11:34

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Despite the abundance of moisture inside the building dry. This is good. Not happy only one thing - funding problems. Do we have such a comic saying - "The West will help us!". It's really a joke. And no West will not help us. Western governments and foundations can help only Ukrainian officials to embezzle more multiply their personal wealth.

Best regards.
Konstantyn
abramenko.konstantyn@gmail.com

Konstantin
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Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 09 Dec 2013 23:32

Hi!

We have been able to purchase some documents in NARA 1 Panzer Army. Public funds collected enough until one movie references - T -313 Roll 54. Unfortunately , we could not of these documents get information about objects in Kramatorskaya fortification . There is mention of the northern section of the defensive line "Turtle" . But, unfortunately , no specifics .

Dear friends , I suggest swap Available from T -313 Roll 54 for any of us interested: T -313 Roll 50,51,52,53,55,56; T -315 Roll in 2081 , 2082 , 2083 . We would be very grateful if there are willing to exchange.

Best regards.
Konstantyn
abramenko.konstantyn@gmail.com

Below are the details of the bank account to help:

Beneficiary: acc. 038-26255111765
NAME ABRAMENKO KONSTIANTYN IGOROVICH, INN 2533114239
ADRESS KRAMATORSK b-r MASHINOSTROITELEY 2-16
Bank of Beneficiary : Raiffeisen Bank AVAL
Donetsk, UKRAINE
SWIFT: AVAL UA UK DON
Correspondent bank : acc 9470329 10
SWIFT: DEUTDEFF

CORRESPONDENT BANKS OF AVAL BANK OUTSIDE THE C.I.S.
(NOSTRO ACCOUNTS)
Bank Name and Citi: Deutsche Bank AG, Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
Account Number: 9470329 10
Currency: EUR
S.W.I.F.T. BIC: DEUTDEFF

Bank Name and Citi: Raiffeisen Zentralbank Oesterreich, Vienna, Avstria
Account Number: 55022305
Currency: EUR
S.W.I.F.T. BIC: RZBAATWW

ATTENTION!
Please, be advised that according to the current legislative acts of Ukraine, we cannot accept payment in favour of the beneficiary if this payment originates from entrepreneurial activity of any kind. So, please, refrain from usinh such definitions as «contract», «bill », «invoice» etc. In details of payment (field #70 or # 72).

Raiffeisen Bank AVAL
OFFICE: 46V, F. ZAITZEVA STR., 83086, DONETSK, UKRAINE
TEL: (062) 337-19-13, (062) 337-25-47 TELEX: 631032 AVAL UX
S.W.I.F.T.: AVAL UA UK DON

Konstantin
Member
Posts: 204
Joined: 06 May 2009 10:14
Location: Poltava, Ukraine

Re: Create fortification monument of World War II, Ukraine

Post by Konstantin » 29 Dec 2013 13:03

Bunker in Kramatorsk. «Schildkröte Nord» or «Orel-Ssamara-Stellung»?

In the second half of August 1943, the German 6th Army under the command of General Karl Adolf Hollidt after losing fortified positions on the river Mius (defensive line "Mius-Front"), was forced to retreat and gain a foothold on the line «Turtle» (Schildkrötenstellung). September 3, 1943, Adolf Hitler ordered the commanders of the 6th and 1st Panzer Army, General von Mackensen Eberhardt hold positions line "Turtle" at any cost. But three days later, the troops of the Southwestern Front R.Malinovsky broke through the German front. 1st Panzer Army was forced to begin a retreat to the line of the Dnieper River, threatening the environment around the southern flank of Army Group "South". Based on this, September 9, 1943 the command of the 6th Army decided to leave the defensive line "Turtle" and a fighting retreat to prepared positions "Panther" and "Wotan" near Melitopol and Zaporozhye.

The defeat of German forces at Stalingrad and forced retreat from the Caucasus, could not but cause concern senior management Wehrmacht situation in the South. First and foremost, vulnerability Donbas grouping of troops. In this regard, the German command in January 1943 it was decided to significantly strengthen and modernize the fortified position "Mius-Front" and start building new fortifications defensive positions:
«Mole» (Maulwurfstellung) through rivers Mius - Donets - Oskol;
«Turtle» (Schildkrötenstellung) through: Mariupol district - District Stalin - the district Kramatorskaya.
Design work and technical leadership was entrusted to the staff of the 5th battalion building fortified areas (place of dislocation Stalino). Economic group at the headquarters of Army Group "South" took over the task of providing the necessary number of construction workers from the civilian population, their accommodation, entrenching tools, food, etc. In the future, to organize and direct construction management, operational headquarters were created, directly under the 107th Construction command:
"Mole South" - the operational headquarters of Lieutenant-Colonel Peters (6 imparted demining and construction units);
"Mole North" - the operational headquarters of Lieutenant Colonel Enkhauzen (10 imparted demining and construction units);
"Turtle South" - the operational headquarters of Major Walcher (8 imparted demining and construction units);
"Turtle North" - the operational headquarters of Captain Dr. Koch (10 imparted demining and construction units).
For this project, the construction involved about 25,000 civilians from the local population. To cover the Donbass group of German troops from the north in spring 1943, it was decided to build another fortified defensive position – «Orel - Samara» (Orel - Ssamara - Stellung) through Orelka - Kramatorskaya. Organize and direct the execution of works was entrusted to the same operational headquarters of Lieutenant Colonel Enkhauzen.
In the region of the divisions of the German 1st Panzer Army was being built and the other defensive lines, smaller - "Wagner", "Dry Torez - Bereka", "Richard", etc. But in this review, as well as fortified positions "Mole" they will not be considered.

In the autumn of 2013, with the support of the Forum Administrator "Kramatorsk.info", was launched campaign to collect donations for the purchase of copies of archival documents of the German 1st Panzer Army. Goal - find a previously unknown information about the fortifications and sites of World War II in the vicinity of Kramatorsk . Lack of relevance and which particularly acute beginning to be felt in the works of creation, on the basis of preserved bunkers , fortifications monument to World War II in our city. But with the help of non-governmental organizations who care about the history Kramators'k citizens an opportunity to begin the study of previously inaccessible archives . And there were the first discoveries and theories version . However, judge for yourself ...
Think it is right to stay in more detail on the northern end of the bulge defensive fortified line "Turtle" - "Turtle North". As I pointed out above, the decision to build was made by the German command in January 1943. When construction work began immediately is not yet known, because currently at our disposal, copies of archival documents sapper leadership 1st Panzer Army (and even then not all, a certain part) only for the period May-September 1943. But at the beginning of May 1943 the construction work is already underway. 107th Construction command is stationed in Gavrilovka. Subordinate Operational Headquarters ( Yasinovataya ) directs Captain Dr. Koch , and from May 12, 1943 the chief of staff appointed Captain Tolksdorf . Also demining and construction units are involved in the construction and combat divisions - 17th Panzer Division and the 3rd Armored Division, which is in the army reserve. Massively involved in work teams of the civilian population, the responsibility for which lies with the formation ortskomendaturah and stewards , the so-called "volunteers" (Hiwi) and Soviet prisoners of war . Unfortunately, there is currently no topographical map or a clear description of the line "Turtle North" on the basis of which we can determine its geographical location , the division into sections , etc. At this stage, we can only assume that's using this part of the document

Image

that:

District Yasinovataya: plot number 9 and 1/2 plot number 10 - is still "Turtle South"
Dzerzhinsk area: 1/2 plot and plot number 10 number 11 - it is "Turtle North". Joint southern and northern flanks at a distance Yasinovataya - Dzerzhinsk.
District Konstantinovka: plot number 12 and plot number 13 - "Turtle North".
District Druzhkivka: Plot number 14 - "Turtle North".
District Kramators'k: plot number 15 and plot number 16 - "Turtle North". The northernmost point of "Turtles" in general and "Turtles-North" in particular.
I should note here that there is a clear discrepancy, contradictory information on the junction point "Turtle South" and "North Turtle" because in the following document

Image

indicated that the area number 9 belongs to the defensive line "Turtle North." Just in this document stated that a special company of the 5th battalion building fortified areas involved in construction, is stationed at Yasnaya Gorka. Indirectly confirms that (along with the dislocation in Ivanovka Staff 504 th Light self-propelled road-building battalion, one of the companies which participated in the construction) version that may Kramatorskaya fortification objects belong to the defensive line "Turtle North".

Based on the analysis of dislocation demining and construction units involved in the construction of the fortified line "Orel-Samara", it has been suggested that fortification objects Kramatorskaya could possibly be relevant to this defensive position. Let's try to prove or disprove this version.

On the basis of available copies of archival documents, it can be argued that the start of the start of construction fortified line "Orel - Samara" was given at the beginning of May 1943, when the operational headquarters of Lieutenant Colonel Endhauzen Kramatorskaya arrived and began construction of a section number 1 line "Orel - Samara ". During May 1943 the construction connected headquarters of the 108th Combat Engineer Regiment, Task ( land № 1-3), 161st Construction Battalion , 506 th light sapper- propelled construction battalion . In the summer of 1943 for the construction of further involved various units : 130th and 115th construction battalions , I/371-y Turkestan Battalion ( based at the 371 th Infantry Division ) , 50th , 125th and 126th motorized parks pontoon type "B" . Just involved in work teams of the civilian population, " volunteers " (Hiwi) and Soviet prisoners of war. Operational management and organization of construction works shall Operational Headquarters Lieutenant Colonel Endhauzena. Which is subject to the 107th Construction team. Due to the massive Soviet offensive in the first half of September 1943 the construction of the line was stopped.
Offered refer to map on September 2, 1943. Rather, in addition to a fragment thereof, wherein the position shown plot number 1 fortified line "Orel - Samara." As more fully described area Kramatorskaya.

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Plot number 1 is located along the line Yakovlevka - Lavrovka - October - Dmitrievka - Alisovka - Shabelkovka - Bezkrovny. Bezkrovny - is already on the territory of Kramatorsk. Line on the map ends approximately in the area where the only surviving German bunker.
To 100% confirm this version of belonging to the fortified bunker line "Orel - Samara" remains the case for small - to find information about the location line "Turtle South." And then everything will fall into place.

Study German archival documents continues. Rather, it has only just begun. I am sure that ahead of us still very unexpected and interesting findings. Wish us luck.

Sources:

1. Rolf Dieter Müller. Die Deutsche Wirtschaftspolitik in den besetzten sowjetischen Gebieten 1941-1943:der Abschlussbericht des Wirtschaftsstabes Ost und Aufzeichnungen eines Angehörigen des Wirtschaftskommandos Kiew. Oldenbourg Verlag, 1991- 671 р.
2. NARA/T313/R54/fr.7288961-7290010


Konstantin Abramenko
22.12.2013

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