Bauformen

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
User avatar
TUS
Member
Posts: 535
Joined: 29 Mar 2007 21:40
Location: Denmark

Re: Bauformen

Post by TUS » 31 Jan 2012 19:01

dirk Peeters wrote:For Tus
These are the ones i ll love to see pictures from the inside
For the moment these looks like Bf 58c to me , one with the room for beds
But whats the biggest question here
the entrence door (of the L) is high (i ve outside pictures of the one in Blavand) but what we must figure out the door which is circled in red
is this the "high" model or the "low"
0.jpg
Dirk
Some pictures from Skrydstrup and Blåvand. The entrances at Blåvand are higher than usual but still with 4 steps to the Tobruk. Still a 58c in my world but with local modifications! What do you guys say?

Brgds Tønnes
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
dirk Peeters
Member
Posts: 6568
Joined: 24 May 2011 20:18
Location: Heist op den Berg Belgium

Re: Bauformen

Post by dirk Peeters » 01 Feb 2012 14:59

I ve made a lot of progress
The "low door is absolutely a Bf 58c and a "high" door is always a VF 8 but early BF 58c are constructed also with a high door
What we know now ist that the room of a VF 8 is 140 cm (same for the Bf 58d and a Bf 58c is 155
You find the fifteen cm difference next to the door to go to the combat room itself
a VF 8 -has 30 cm and a Bf 58c has always 45 cm
That also explains that the BF 58c is a little bit greater
Thanks for tyhe photographs
We contionue our work
I was recently in the Normandy and this week i ll go for 9 days to Bretagne (for measurements of course)
Dirk

User avatar
SES
In memoriam
Posts: 3936
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 09:07
Location: 05 ON LT 8

Re: Bauformen

Post by SES » 01 Feb 2012 19:48

Hi Dirk,
Clould you possibly post a drawing that depicts the high and low entrance, I'm still confused.
bregds
SES

User avatar
dirk Peeters
Member
Posts: 6568
Joined: 24 May 2011 20:18
Location: Heist op den Berg Belgium

Re: Bauformen

Post by dirk Peeters » 01 Feb 2012 20:04

1 KVA D Sa 29.jpg
Here a genuine Bf 58c with low entrance as predicted in the plans
But there is also a rare Bf 58c with high entrance I ll think tis is the type between a VF 8 and the standardisized Bf 58c (maybe this is what the plans called the Bf 58c alt ?
7 KVA H2 51 (1).jpg
Do you want a genuine VF 8 also ?
Dirk
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
AvB
Member
Posts: 3332
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 00:00
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands

Re: Bauformen

Post by AvB » 01 Feb 2012 20:28

I'm with Tønnes on this one. I think there were a lot of local modifications, especially with these small constructions where it was easier to modify them.

User avatar
dirk Peeters
Member
Posts: 6568
Joined: 24 May 2011 20:18
Location: Heist op den Berg Belgium

Re: Bauformen

Post by dirk Peeters » 01 Feb 2012 20:40

For me it is like this
First there was a VF 8 without steps , then they saw this wasnt practical and change the design in a variation with steps but with a high door
. The room stays always 110 and 140 cm
Than for wathever reason they changed this in a greater room 110 and 145 cm with steps and the Bf 58c was born . Some are with high doors but the bulk is with low doors We can place with his system already many Tobruks and yes maybe we would change the name later on for a VF 8 with steps but for the moment we didn t find the name
But for me not so many "local buid exist
Dont forget a Tobruk is a very specialised construction and has a number of specifications so it has to be build very acurate otherwise the ring gliding system would not work for MG etc

User avatar
SES
In memoriam
Posts: 3936
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 09:07
Location: 05 ON LT 8

Re: Bauformen

Post by SES » 01 Feb 2012 20:53

Hi Dirk,
So a low entrance is about 145 and a high 190 is that it?
bregds
SES

User avatar
dirk Peeters
Member
Posts: 6568
Joined: 24 May 2011 20:18
Location: Heist op den Berg Belgium

Re: Bauformen

Post by dirk Peeters » 01 Feb 2012 21:59

a low is about 120 cm (190 min 68 cm )
a haigh is between 180 and 190 cm ...

User avatar
SES
In memoriam
Posts: 3936
Joined: 26 Jan 2004 09:07
Location: 05 ON LT 8

Re: Bauformen

Post by SES » 01 Feb 2012 22:03

OK
bregds
SES

User avatar
dirk Peeters
Member
Posts: 6568
Joined: 24 May 2011 20:18
Location: Heist op den Berg Belgium

Re: Bauformen

Post by dirk Peeters » 02 Feb 2012 08:45

I am very prudent to say local build
I ve just measured many Tobruks in the Normandy a lot of them the type Ic116 normally in Belgium an northern france (lets say the 15 armee here these Ic 116 has always a ring of 117 a 120 cm . In the Normandy and a lot of Bretagne they have 150cm rings .... Just found one in Grand Camp Maisy a Ic 116 with a ring of 120 cm ... and in the same StP we have another Ic 116 with the 150 cm ring ... So it is for another mortar which i dont believe or we have here a newer and an older version . The same goes with VF 8 and Bf 58c . Even when we found no VF 8 in norway or Danemark than jou can t called it either local build when its from the Spanish border just to Holland (included)
In the BRV archive are hundreds of Tobruks and the greatest part we found also in france and so on so local build..... ???
In the beginning i believe they constructed local ones but with Tobruks that not so common

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19171
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Re: Bauformen

Post by jopaerya » 05 Apr 2012 14:55

Hello All

Who has any idea on this Bauform , the gun in this bettung was a 15.5 cm K.418 (f) .
Looking at the allready found numbers it must be around the Bf 270 till 280 ??

Regards Jos
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
dirk Peeters
Member
Posts: 6568
Joined: 24 May 2011 20:18
Location: Heist op den Berg Belgium

Re: Bauformen

Post by dirk Peeters » 05 Apr 2012 15:03

Bf 270 to Bf 276 are known ... it can only be Bf 277 , 278 279 or Bf 280 .....

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 19171
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Re: Bauformen

Post by jopaerya » 14 Apr 2012 19:26

Hello All

Who has any information on this bunker , according to this document this should be a
VF or Bauform 26 a personelsbunker with walls of 2 meter and a roof of 1 meter concrete .

Regards Jos
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Nectar
Member
Posts: 666
Joined: 20 Jul 2003 19:42
Location: Arnhem

Re: Bauformen

Post by Nectar » 14 Apr 2012 21:10

Hi Jos,

In a topic on bauformen on Superforum this bunker was labelled as a vf 26. No 2m walls but could be it.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

pierrot
Member
Posts: 493
Joined: 28 Mar 2007 19:33
Location: Brussels

Re: Bauformen

Post by pierrot » 14 Apr 2012 22:54

Hallo Jos,

For me it's a small typing mistake in the report: instead of 26 you must read 2b and then is everything more clear.
On the next page of this report, they made a small drawing (side view) of the bunker on the scale 1/200. If you measure it, you will come on the dimensions of a VF2b. Also inside Stp 718 E (eisenbahn batterie in Knokke) were Vf2b's built for sheltering the personal of the guns.

Gr.

Pierrot

Return to “Fortifications, Artillery, & Rockets”