Bauformen

[jopaerya]

Hello Friends

(1) Do you five of these tobruks ?
(2) A "normal" 2 cm Flak 30 or 38 does not fit in the tobruk
(3) Any of these tobruks left
(4) Sorry for the many questions

Regards Jos

[der bunkermann]

Hi jos.
1 i'm not sure if they were all the same.

2 Strange a normal 2 cm dont fit?
3 18 and 19 still excist, but the bettungen are completely covered.
4 my finger hurts

[AW]

Moin,

I think only No. 20 and maybe 21 are from this design...
all the other one had a seperat UK & M.
sadly No. 20 is demolished.

btw. what are BRV R1, R2 and R3?

greetz
Alex

[AW]

(2) A "normal" 2 cm Flak 30 or 38 does not fit in the tobruk
Regards Jos

Hello,

the opening Looks bigger than a Bf 261 (70)... if the drawing are right is the Diameter 6,60m
My opinion is that the le Flak are for "Erdkampf" because it was infront of the Höckerline/Pz-Graben.

greetz

Alex

[der bunkermann]

Hi alex, R2 is possible something to do with the cables that connected the complex with the V192 in westbroekpark.
R3 is a tobruk. I think it was 58c.
Gr. Tim.
R1 is not on the map?

[AW]

Hello Tim,

thx... I wonder that the Tobruk isn´t on the german map?!
R1 was is the KSS at Willem Beukelzoonstraat.

greetz
Alex

[der bunkermann]

Aha.. i have a drawing of the schaltstelle somewhere. Send it to you.
I remember that tobruk was temporarily open some years ago.

[der bunkermann]

Also where the lonely 4 is on the map (below r2) there should be a tobruk.

[Eax-E]

Hello,

Here is a good hint to find "who" is the BF 85. It must be an observation post with workroom.

VF remplacé par BF.jpg

Regards

[jopaerya]

Nice find Arthur

[dirk Peeters]

Yep i agree , nice find
Dirk

[moonraker]

hello,
here one foto of VF1a ...
source ebay.de

Me belfra-team

[forttravel]

Almost typical Ringstand 58c, but only partially (on top = beam section) with iron reinforcement.
Please note on drawing label, both names existing together Ringstand and Tobrukstand.
Also new function/armament = Panzerbüchse and observer.
Source: http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/archief ... level/file

[forttravel]

MG-Stand Typ 5 from designed im year 1943.
Quite deep inside 130 cm from floor to top edge with big diameter of wooden pole in the middle. AA purpose for hmg or light cannon?
Some source as above.

[Lars Bertelsen]

Thanks forttravel

Almost typical Ringstand 58c, but only partially (on top = beam section) with iron reinforcement.

Very interesting drawing. It seems to be a Bauform 58c build using the minimal amount of reinforcing bars.
In Denmark (and other placed, I guess), lots of Bauformen were built without rebar in the external walls. To ensure, that the strength of the wall would not be reduced, the thickness of the walls was increased by 50 % (60 cm instead of 40 cm as usual). Nevertheless, today these walls often have got large cracks or sometimes even collapse under their own weight (see attached photo of Bauform 67 variant at Blåvand). The bottom plate and roof plate were usually built in normal thickness and reinforcement (20 cm and 40 cm respectively).
The Bauform 58c on your drawing seems to be built without reinforcement in the bottom plate and only a minimum in the roof plate. Thicknesses are increased by 50 % (30 cm and 60 cm respectively), and the stair case has got an extra step. I wonder if any Ringstände were actually built in this way.
Greetings Lars