H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

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Manuferey
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Post by Manuferey » 08 Jun 2007 21:10

Glad to have another Virginian in this exciting discussion and thanks Lo for finding La Roche à Coucou, that fits! (for the non-French speakers on the forum, Coucou = Cuckoo in French), some new bunkers to discover ? :D 8-)

Regarding the two Abteilungen HQ, I’ve seen the names of their locations on the map “Lage 7. Armee – Stand 5.6.44” with “La Roche-Coucou” for II./1262 and Beaumont(-Hague) for I./1262. There’s a nice reproduction of the map in the internal cover of “Le Mur de l’Atlantique en Normandie” from A. Chazette. :wink:

For the 1051, 1052 and 1053, my guess is that they were independent Army batteries like so many along the coast, and redesignated with 1262 battery numbers in December 43 along with all the coastal batteries in Normandy. I cannot find traces of any batteries between Flamanville and Carteret in mid 43. Therefore, these 3 batteries would have been moved to the eastern side of the Cotentin peninsula between June and December 43. That would fit with Jos’ batteries of 8,8 cm Flak (r) given to 7th Army in December 43 (Jos: don’t you mean 31(r) instead of 32(r) according to your document presented earlier on this topic?) :?

The I./1262 HQ is the renamed “Eisenbahn-Artillerie-Abteilungsstab 681“ after December 43. (For the non-German speakers: Eisenbahn = railroad and Stab = HQ in German). The EAA Stab 681 covered the Army coastal batteries in north-western Cotentin that became the 1, 2, 3/1262. It is interessant to note that the 3./1262 was an “Eisenbahn Artillery” battery as it had 2 heavy guns on railtracks at Auderville-Laye.

There was no coastal battery of 17 cm near Flamanville in mid 43. Therefore, it’s probable that the 4/1262 battery with its 17 cm guns was also ordered to the area in December 43 like the 10./1261 battery at Pernelle II in eastern Cotentin. The Germans being so orderly, it would seem more “German” to me to split 8 batteries equally, i.e. 4 and 4, between 2 Abteilungen, instead of 3 and 5. :idea:

As for the 9th battery of the 1262 maybe it’s a wild goose chase : the Internet source where I saw it could have made an error in the first place, reading and recopying 9 instead of 8 from the original German document ! :oops:

Emmanuel

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moonraker
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Post by moonraker » 11 Jun 2007 08:56

hi all,
jos, rightly,
on not has beaumont one finds two PC R 608 build to mirroir some. of which is 608 HQ 1 /1262. the rock has oucou is not q' poor small shelters observation with little interest if not a beautiful sight.

for info:
the HQ 1/1262 is STP 387.
for the "roche a coucou" is wn 329.

pic r 608 beaumont
Image

pic observation poste "roche a coucou"
Image
Last edited by moonraker on 11 Jun 2007 11:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jopaerya » 11 Jun 2007 11:46

Thanks Etienne

What a difference a beautiful 608 or last one

Regards Jos

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Post by Manuferey » 11 Jun 2007 21:35

Was the 7/1262 positioned at Houel between Flamanville and Sciotot as some Internet sources mention ? :| Are there any bunker left that would be worth looking at ? 8-)

Emmanuel

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Post by moonraker » 11 Jun 2007 21:44

hi Emmanuel,
nein !!!!!!in speak french "que dalle"
just one garage bunker has houel for projector. :D
etienne regards

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by Manuferey » 20 Jul 2014 15:15

I'm reopening this old post as I have come across two new pieces of the puzzle.

There appears to be a Feldpostnummer for 9./1262: :?

16241
(28.4.1940-14.9.1940) Stab I u. 1.-4. Kompanie Infanterie-Regiment 564, u. gestrichen
(12.7.1941-26.1.1942) Nachschub-Stab fur Wasserversorgung 580
(15.7.1942-24.1.1943) Bataillon Stab fur Wasserversorgung 580
(25.1.1943-31.7.1943) gestrichen
(24.3.1944-6.11.1944) 24.5.1944 9. Batterie Heeres-Küsten-Artillerie-Regiment 1262,
am 15.9.1944 gestrichen.

And Oberst then General Triepel, CO of HKAR 1261, the other HKAR in the Cotentin peninsula, in his post-war report to the Americans (FMS-B-0260) positions nine (9) different batteries of HKAR 1262 on a map of the western side of the Cotentin. However, the battery numbers and the positions are mixed up compared to what we know from German documents.

Could 9./1262 have been created when 2 guns (12,2 cm K390/1(r)) of 5./1262 were sent to the eastern side of the Cotentin around June 9 as reported by Triepel, leaving 2 other guns behind? It would be a similar scenario to what we've seen with HKAA 1255 in the Calvados area (see http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 47&start=0).

On the other hand, 9./1262 does not appear on the list of batteries of HKAR 1262 lost after the Fall of Cherbourg and the dissolution of the HKAR. :? But the two 122 mm guns could have been incorporated into the schwere Artillerie Abt.(mot.) 456 or 457 retreating south. :idea:

Emmanuel

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by schwarzermai » 20 Jul 2014 15:41

9./1262 were created at Alderney and at may 5th 1944 renamed kriegsgliederungsmäßig into 9./1262
with 4x 15cm K.

Image

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by jopaerya » 20 Jul 2014 16:04

Hello Uwe

Maybe this fits in this lose end http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ilit=haque

Regards Jos

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by Manuferey » 21 Jul 2014 01:34

Thanks uwe ! :thumbsup: The mystery of a 9./1262 is finally solved !

Jos,

Yes, it could be tied indeed to this planned battery in Cap de la Hague since the designation was linked to HKAR 1262 and not HKAR 1265 of the Channel Island. On the other end, there was one 15 cm K18 installed in Cap de la Hague as "Leuchtgeschuetz" (lighting gun) for 1./1262 and 2./1262 but positioned in the open air behind a light concrete wall (see p.258 of "Les batteries de côte en Normandie - 1939-1944" by Alain Chazette.

Emmanuel

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by schwarzermai » 21 Jul 2014 14:16

some more infos about 9./1262
from Hauptmann Rüdt (Hauptmann z.b.V. at ArKo 118)

it seems that 9./1262 war Personalbattery only - no guns in real

11.6.1944 - 18:30 - Personal 9./1262 steht Oberst Reiter zur Verfügung
12.6.1944 - 11:00 - Personal 9./1262 wieder zusammenziehen als Einheit

Image
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Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by jpz4 » 21 Jul 2014 14:34

Thanks Uwe, very interesting document!

(Personally I find the information on the 'Fahrgestellen Pz.R 35 especially interesting, they are very difficult to track down). The details on s.Art.Abt.457 are also very interesting.

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by jopaerya » 22 Jul 2014 16:39

Hello Emmanuel

Are you sure that the star shells gun at Cap de la Haque was a 15 cm K.18 .
I know the document from Alain but looks to me that the maximum distance
of the gun is much smaller then the 15 cm K.18 .

Regards Jos

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by Manuferey » 22 Jul 2014 23:16

Jos,

I remember discussing with Alain about this LG gun several years ago. I don't remember what was the source for a 15 cm K18 but Alain's document shows indeed a range of 7.5 cm for the 15 cm gun while a 15 cm K18 could possibly reach over 20 km indeed.

I know that Rudi Rolf identifies the LG gun as a 15 cm SK L/45 in "Der Atlantikwall" (BTW same type of LG gun as for MKB Marcouf). And the British report on German "defences" describes a "155 mm fixed gun situated to the NW of the position of 1./1262 in an open emplacement similar to those housing the six wheeled gun. This description would match a pivot-mounted 15 cm SK L/45 better than a wheeled 15 cm K18 indeed. :idea:

On the other hand, a 15 cm SK L/45 gun was a naval/coastal gun thus more typically owned by the Kriegsmarine while 1./1262 was a Heer coastal battery. Would the KM "loan" one of its LG guns to the Heer? :?

Maybe Alain can comment here.

Emmanuel

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by duesentorben » 27 Jul 2022 11:21

Hello!
I hope someone will answer to my question in this old topic.
first i will tell you my story. A few years ago my girlfriend showed me a foto album of her grandfather in WW2. At once i saw that her grandfather wasn`t only a usual private. I forced her to get informations about him from the german "Bundesarchiv". It took a while and we got it. I found out that he was a commander of a Heeresküstenbatterie.

This june i was in Normandy for the commemorations. There i found out with some help that he was the commander of "Stahl Battery" in Auderville La Roche. But not only that...he also was the chief of "Gruppe Cherbourg West". I got a document with the official order to command that group. The group Cherbourg West was Stahl Battery, Auderville La Haye and Biville.

In that document is written "Battr. 685 (E)" ( La Haye), "H.K.B. 4./706" (Auderville la Roche) and "Stell.Battr.(Küste) 318" (that must be Biville).

My question is: What does "Stell.Battr.(Küste) 318" mean?

Thank you!

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Re: H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by jopaerya » 27 Jul 2022 17:53

First :welcome:

Here a good explanation from one of our members Schwarzermai viewtopic.php?t=246669
You are correct on the Biville batterie , are there any photo's from the guns and bunkers in that fotoalbum ?
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