H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

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Manuferey
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H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by Manuferey » 03 Jun 2007 15:16

The German source below mentions 9 batteries for H.K.A.A. 1262 (Eastern coast of the Cotentin peninsula – Normandy).

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... e/HKAR.htm
Heeres-Küsten-Artillerie-Regiment 1262
„Aufgestellt am 20. Dezember 1943 beim OB West aus dem Stab des Heeres-Küsten-Artillerie-Regiments 645 mit zwei Abteilungen und neun Batterien. Das Regiment wurde bei der Invasion der Alliierten in der Normandie vernichtet.“

Many other sources mention only 8 batteries. :? I’ve been able to locate only 8 batteries so far. Any idea where the 9th battery was located if it ever existed? :idea:

1./1262 – Auderville La Roche – Battery “Stahl” – 6 x 15,5 cm
2./1262 – Biville (Petit Thot) – 4 x 10,5 cm
3./1262 – Auderville Laye – 2 x 20,3 cm on railways
4./1262 – Flamanville – 4 x 17 cm
5./1262 – Carteret – 4 x 12,2 cm
6./1262 – Near Siouville – 4 x 10,5 cm
7./1262 – Houel – 4 x 10, 5 cm
8./1262 – Pointe du Rozel – 4 x 10,5 cm or 4 x 8,8 cm depending on the sources.

Emmanuel

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Post by jopaerya » 03 Jun 2007 17:21

Salut Emmanuel

The H.K.A.R. 645 had in 1943 9 batteries from Auderville-la-Roche till Riva Bella
end 1943 the H.K.A.R. 645 was spilt up in H.K.A.R. 1261 and H.K.A.R.1262 .
The H.Q. of the H.K.A.R. 645 was in 1943 near Caen with the 716 I.D.

The batteries from 6./7./8./ 1262 were all armed with 4 x 8.8 cm Flak M 31(r)

Regards Jos

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Post by Jeremiah29 » 03 Jun 2007 17:48

Hello Emmanuel

I have the same data than you for the place of the eight batteries...
However I remember have reading somewhere long time ago the existence of a 14./1262 (????) :?

I will search in my old papers (I didn't have PC and Net at this epoch !! :wink: )

Regards.
Lo

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Manuferey
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H.K.A.R. 1262 - 8 or 9 batteries ?

Post by Manuferey » 03 Jun 2007 20:35

Jos and Lo,

I was sure to catch the interest of you two guys with this. Maybe we should have a sub-forum about German coastal artillery in Normandy! :idea:

German maps I’ve seen show HKAR 644 with CP in Valognes in 1943 and covering coastal batteries in the Cotentin Peninsula, thus different from HKAR 645. My understanding was that HKAR 645 was “ein Stab ohne eigene Artillerie” and would become the Stab of HKAR 1262, while HKAR 644 (also “Stab ohne eigene Artillerie”). would become the stab of HKAR 1261. :?

Jos, I assume that your sources for the armament of 6./7./8./1262 are actual German “bauprogrammen”. Several people will have to correct their websites or even books with your information! :(

Lo, I know where I’ve seen a mention of 14/1262. It’s in page 18 of the book “1944: Le Mur de l’Atlantique en Normandie”. It has to be a typographic error as one should read 4./1262 since it’s in Flamanville with 4 x 17 cm guns. :P

Dank u - Merci,

Emmanuel

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Post by Jeremiah29 » 05 Jun 2007 19:30

Hello Emmanuel

You're right, that there...I checked after your message.
I didn't open this magazine since many years...
Yes, obviously a typo error.

Regards.
Lo

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Post by moonraker » 06 Jun 2007 08:22

hello,
i thinck error typo !!
according to the restprogram of the HKAA 1262 at the date of the 28/01/44.
following building would have being made.
2/1262 biville 4x R671 finish
5/1262 carteret 4 xR669
6/1262 souiville 4 x SK
8/1262 pointe du rozelle 4 x SK
for information:
only on the battery of rozelle one finds holes.
the battery of biville is when it finished.
the battery of souiville no trace. :|
best regards
etienne

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Post by Jeremiah29 » 06 Jun 2007 12:02

Hi Etienne

It seems that 6./HKAA 1262 (Siouville) was a field battery...It should be in position near the exit of Siouville on the road to Dielette.

Regards.
Lo

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Manuferey
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Post by Manuferey » 06 Jun 2007 17:32

Funny how we all move back and forth from one Atlantikwall forum to another ! :lol:

Do any of you have Bauprogrammen that could confirm the armament of the various batteries ? The SK casemates at 6. and 8. that Moon mentions would be for the 88 AA guns that Jos has mentioned. That makes sense. Otherwise, there would be no reason not to built per Regelbauen, for instance type 671 for 105 mm guns ? :?

Emmanuel

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Post by jopaerya » 06 Jun 2007 18:02

Hi Emmanuel

Here your request , date is 01-06-1944

Regards Jos
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Manuferey
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Post by Manuferey » 06 Jun 2007 23:00

Great ! No proof better than a German document !

Thanks Jos,

Emmanuel

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Post by Jeremiah29 » 07 Jun 2007 08:22

Yes, very great like always !!!
I think Jos is magician...He always find "the Good document"...maybe from his hat ?
Thanks a lot.

Lo

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Manuferey
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Post by Manuferey » 08 Jun 2007 17:41

Interestingly, the 8,8 cm Flak 31(r) was a re-bored version of the 7,62 cm Russian AA gun, model 1931, with a two-wheel base - unlike the 8,8 cm Flak M39(r) which was based on the famous 85 mm Russian AA gun (KS-12) on a 4-wheel platform. Here is a link to a German museum that shows pictures of the 7,62 cm Model 31 and 8,5/8,8 cm Model 39 for comparison. http://www.wehrtechnikmuseum.de/Exponat ... tml#85Flak

Several HKBs in Norway had switched at one point from 4 x 10,5 cm guns of French origin to 8,8 cm Flak (r). This could have happened also to the batteries that became the 6, 7 and 8/1262. Could this explain why many Atlantikwall websites/books consider 105 mm guns instead of 8,8 cm Flak guns for the 6, 7 and 8/1262 ?

Separately, Hauptmann Herbert Schoch of the 243th ID mentions in « Fighting the Invasion: The German Army at D-Day » by David Isby: “The GHQ coast artillery batteries Nos. 1051, 1052, 1053 had been instructed to cooperate with the division.”
Could these 3 independent batteries have become the 6, 7 and 8/1262 at the end of December 43?

Emmanuel

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Post by RichTO90 » 08 Jun 2007 18:37

Manuferey wrote:Separately, Hauptmann Herbert Schoch of the 243th ID mentions in « Fighting the Invasion: The German Army at D-Day » by David Isby: “The GHQ coast artillery batteries Nos. 1051, 1052, 1053 had been instructed to cooperate with the division.”
Could these 3 independent batteries have become the 6, 7 and 8/1262 at the end of December 43?

Emmanuel
Not sure which he is talking about, I have found no such battery numbers recorded by AOK 7? It is possible though since a lot of redesignation went on.

But on a related question, does anyone know what the funtion of the two Abteilungen HQ was and which batteries were assigned where? I found one reference placing I. Abtl. at Beaumont-Hague with 1.-3. Batterie and II. Abtl. at "La Roche 'Coucou'"??? with 4.-8. Batterie? Now the two groupings by area of the batteries (1.-.3 roughly in the vicinity of Auderville and 4.-8. roughly in the area of Flamanville-Cartaret) makes sense for Beaumont-Hague....but I can't figure out what the other location refers to and any location near other 'La Roche' doesn't really make sense?

And no, I;ve seen reference to a 9. Batterie as well but have no idea where it may have been or what it was equipped with? Perhaps it was planned only and never organized or equipped?

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Post by jopaerya » 08 Jun 2007 20:25

Hello All

(1) End 1943 the 7 Armee and the 15 Armee were given each 4 x 21 cm K. 39/41
( M.K.B. St. Marcouf and M.K.B. Gravelines ) , 4 x 15 cm Tbts.K.C/36 ( M.K.B.
Lonques and M.K.B. Oye-Plage ) and as last each 3 x batteries 4 x 8.8 cm M 31 (r)
( 6.7.8./1262 and 4.5.6./1244 )
(2) I never heard of the 1051 1052 1053 all I know that 4.5.6./243 were equiped with
4 x 7.62 cm F.K. 39 (r)
(3) I also could not find Roche Coucou II/1262 , I know the I/1262 had a 608 bunker
at Beamont .I think pure theory that 1.2.3/ 1262 were I/1262 and 4.5.6.7.8./1262
were II/1262 .

Regards Jos

Typo is corrrected M 31
Last edited by jopaerya on 08 Jun 2007 21:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Jeremiah29 » 08 Jun 2007 20:59

Hello all

I found a place call "La Roche à Coucou" (altitude 130 m) in the west of borough from Les Pieux where you can have the "most beautiful view since Cap de la Hague to Cap de Carteret"...

Regards.
Lo

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