New Jonas Scherner just dropped

Discussions on the economic history of the nations taking part in WW2, from the recovery after the depression until the economy at war.
ljadw
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Re: New Jonas Scherner just dropped

Post by ljadw » 21 Jun 2022 20:52

The main producer of food for the German people was the German agriculture .
The main producer of food for the USSR was NOT the Soviet state and its kolchozes and sovchozes ( a big part of the Soviet agriculture remained privatized) or LL : the main producer was the Soviet population .
The official figures (in all countries ) give a false picture of the food situation : the grain production in UK, USSR,Germany, the occupied countries was higher than what the official stats are telling us .These stats did not count the production of the allotments, the food production of the townsmen ,of the black market,.....

Peter89
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Re: New Jonas Scherner just dropped

Post by Peter89 » 21 Jun 2022 21:27

stg 44 wrote:
21 Jun 2022 18:53
Peter89 wrote:
08 May 2022 11:59
Indeed. This is a point I make a lot of times for those who argue that Germany had to invade the Soviet Union in order to gain raw materials. In reality, Germany didn't get much of the raw materials from there, expended much-much more, and still was able to increase its war production until mid-1944. In some items, even after that. The most often quoted materials (food, oil, chrome, tungsten, iron, aluminium) could be obtained by increased investments on the German-controlled continent. (Natural rubber was, of course, an exception.) Most of the food came from Southeastern and Western Europe anyway, and not from the East.
The food situation was what was critical, as noted repeatedly by Goebbels in his diaries and elsewhere. The only reason more food didn't come from the East was the Soviets either evacuated or destroyed it and all the necessary farming implements as they retreated. There is a FMS about the occupation of Ukraine and the food problems resulting from the invasion were discussed; the Soviets basically left their people to starve on purpose. I also question how much food could have been increased in occupied Europe given the dearth of manpower and competing needs. Then there is the whole fertilizer problem and competition for explosives production among other things.
This is a very complex question I have no definitive answer for. On one hand, the European continent required food imports for cca. 25-30m people in peace time. But let's not forget that countries like Argentina exported food to Europe not so much because there were physical limits of growing more food in Europe, but because it was cheaper and easier to import food.

Also countries like Hungary suffered from the terrible harvest of 1940, and the territorial changes totally disrupted the food distribution system. Germany suddenly had to look after much of the European continent, so a bad harvest combined with all these problems suggest a critical moment in food supply; but it does not mean that it was going to remain that way forever.

Also let's not forget that war just ravaged western and northern Europe, as well as Poland and the Balkans; thus these regions were far from full production. Furthermore, the Central-Eastern-Balkans countries suffered from a lack of capital - not of manpower - and technology. Gradually raising agricultural production was not just a possibility but a reality.

Also by getting into direct contact with the Turks, the Germans could access another market with agricultural surplus and desire for German industrial products.

Not to mention the raw fact that Germany kept on fighting for 4-5 years more after the food situation was "critical".
“And while I am talking to you, mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before, but I shall say it again, and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars." - FDR, October 1940

Peter89
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Location: Spain

Re: New Jonas Scherner just dropped

Post by Peter89 » 21 Jun 2022 21:29

ljadw wrote:
21 Jun 2022 20:52
The main producer of food for the German people was the German agriculture .
The main producer of food for the USSR was NOT the Soviet state and its kolchozes and sovchozes ( a big part of the Soviet agriculture remained privatized) or LL : the main producer was the Soviet population .
The official figures (in all countries ) give a false picture of the food situation : the grain production in UK, USSR,Germany, the occupied countries was higher than what the official stats are telling us .These stats did not count the production of the allotments, the food production of the townsmen ,of the black market,.....
Depends on the country. It was handled a bit differently everywhere. This is why I said, it's quite complicated.

Long story short, I don't think Germany had to attack the Soviet Union for food.
“And while I am talking to you, mothers and fathers, I give you one more assurance. I have said this before, but I shall say it again, and again and again. Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars." - FDR, October 1940

ljadw
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Posts: 13487
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: New Jonas Scherner just dropped

Post by ljadw » 22 Jun 2022 14:06

German potatoes harvest
1931-1932 :42,4 million tons no import
1938/1939 : 56 million tons import : 100000 tons
1943/1944 : 42,5 million tons imports : 2,2 million tons
Source "Die deutsche landwirtschaftliche preis-und marktpolitik im zweiten weltkrieg . P 55.

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