Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 26 Sep 2021 17:52

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre
The Qibya massacre occurred during "Operation Shoshana", a reprisal operation that occurred in October 1953 when Israeli troops under Ariel Sharon attacked the village of Qibya in the West Bank. At least sixty-nine Palestinian villagers were killed,[1] two-thirds of them women and children.[2] Forty-five houses, a school, and a mosque were destroyed.
It should be noted that at time the massacre was strongly condemned.
The act was condemned by the U.S. State Department, the UN Security Council, and by Jewish communities worldwide.[5] The State Department described the raid as "shocking", and used the occasion to confirm publicly that economic aid to Israel had been suspended previously, for other non-compliance regarding the 1949 Armistice Agreements.
UN observers noted that they observed bodies near doorways, and bullet marks on the doors of demolished houses, and later concluded that residents may have been forced to stay in their homes due to heavy fire.

User avatar
mikegriffith1
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 21:59
Location: Virginia

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by mikegriffith1 » 04 Oct 2021 16:33

This post lacks context, such as any mention of the numerous cross-border attacks that Arabs carried out against Israeli civilians. The raid on Qibya was in response to those attacks. The post also ignores the fact that Sharon insisted that his unit did not know that the houses were occupied:
I couldn’t believe my ears. As I went back over each step of the operation, I began to understand what must have happened. For years Israeli reprisal raids had never succeeded in doing more than blowing up a few outlying buildings, if that. Expecting the same, some Arab families must have stayed in their houses rather than running away. In those big stone houses [...] some could easily have hidden in the cellars and back rooms, keeping quiet when the paratroopers went in to check and yell out a warning. The result was this tragedy that had happened.
This comes from the Jewish Virtual Library's article on Qibya:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/qibya-october-1953

User avatar
Steve
Member
Posts: 906
Joined: 03 Aug 2002 01:58
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by Steve » 04 Oct 2021 18:12

Anyone who takes an interest in the conflict has probably heard of Deir Yassin. The link below will take you to an article in the Israeli Haaretz newspaper about what happened there in April 1948.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/MAG ... -1.5494094

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 06 Oct 2021 10:35

mikegriffith1 wrote:
04 Oct 2021 16:33
This post lacks context, such as any mention of the numerous cross-border attacks that Arabs carried out against Israeli civilians. The raid on Qibya was in response to those attacks. The post also ignores the fact that Sharon insisted that his unit did not know that the houses were occupied:
I couldn’t believe my ears. As I went back over each step of the operation, I began to understand what must have happened. For years Israeli reprisal raids had never succeeded in doing more than blowing up a few outlying buildings, if that. Expecting the same, some Arab families must have stayed in their houses rather than running away. In those big stone houses [...] some could easily have hidden in the cellars and back rooms, keeping quiet when the paratroopers went in to check and yell out a warning. The result was this tragedy that had happened.
This comes from the Jewish Virtual Library's article on Qibya:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/qibya-october-1953
Thank you for your contribution. It was impossible to quote the whole article in Wikipedia. So I would like to continue quotation as you believe that my post is not complete.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre
The attack followed cross-border raids from the Jordanian-occupied West Bank and Israeli reprisals, particularly the attack on Qibya, were a response to the Yehud attack in which an Israeli woman and her two children were killed in their home.
As for mr.Sharon then
Ariel Sharon later wrote in his diary that he had received orders to inflict heavy damage on the Arab Legion forces in Qibya: 'The orders were utterly clear: Qibya was to be an example for everyone'. Original documents of the time showed that Sharon personally ordered his troops to achieve "maximal killing and damage to property", and post-operational reports speak of breaking into houses and clearing them with grenades and shooting.[21] Sharon then later said that he had "thought the houses were empty" and that the unit had checked all houses before detonating the explosives.
The article in Wikipedia contains exactly the same quote that you kindly proposed.
I couldn't believe my ears. As I went back over each step of the operation, I began to understand what must have happened. For years Israeli reprisal raids had never succeeded in doing more than blowing up a few outlying buildings, if that. Expecting the same, some Arab families must have stayed in their houses rather than running away. In those big stone houses [...] some could easily have hidden in the cellars and back rooms, keeping quiet when the paratroopers went in to check and yell out a warning. The result was this tragedy that had happened.

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 09 Oct 2021 15:29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Pale ... _and_Ramle
The 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramle, also known as the Lydda Death March,[1][2] was the expulsion of 50,000 to 70,000[3] Palestinian Arabs when Israeli troops captured the towns in July that year. The military action occurred within the context of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. The two Arab towns, lying outside the area designated for a Jewish state in the UN Partition Plan of 1947, and inside the area set aside for an Arab state in Palestine,[4][5] subsequently were transformed into predominantly Jewish areas in the new State of Israel, known as Lod and Ramla.[6]
Once the Israelis were in control of the towns, an expulsion order signed by Yitzhak Rabin was issued to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) stating, "1. The inhabitants of Lydda must be expelled quickly without attention to age....".[15] Ramle's residents were bussed out, while the people of Lydda were forced to walk miles during a summer heat wave to the Arab front lines, where the Arab Legion, Transjordan's British-led army, tried to provide shelter and supplies.[16] A number of the refugees died during the exodus from exhaustion and dehydration, with estimates ranging from a handful to a figure of 500.[17]

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 10 Oct 2021 10:06

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safsaf_massacre
The Safsaf massacre took place on 29 October 1948,[1] following the capture of the Palestinian Arab village of Safsaf in the Galilee by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
Evidence of a massacre in which 52–64 villagers were killed by the IDF comes from several contemporaneous Israeli government sources and Arab oral history. The evidence suggests that 52 men had their hands tied, were shot and killed, and were buried in a pit. Several women reported allegations of rape by the IDF, including the rape and murder of a 14-year-old girl.[4] At least two internal inquiries were initiated during 1948–49 by the IDF, but their reports remain classified.

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 10 Oct 2021 10:19

https://apnews.com/article/25ac46caafc8 ... f04ef136fb
Israeli soldiers killed hundreds of Egyptian prisoners of war during the 1967 Mideast war _ deaths that commanders who are now prominent leaders have known about for years, historians said Wednesday.

One veteran described on national radio how two army cooks stabbed to death three Egyptian prisoners.

The controversy involves some of Israel’s top politicians, including Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and right-wing legislator Rafael Eitan, a former army chief.

The allegations dominated news shows Wednesday, shocking many Israelis who have long prized the notion that their army maintained high ethical standards _ known here as ``purity of arms″ _ throughout decades of warfare with the Arab world and military rule over Palestinians.

User avatar
mikegriffith1
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: 19 Feb 2019 21:59
Location: Virginia

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by mikegriffith1 » 12 Oct 2021 10:45

I'll just say this: For every one alleged or real Israeli war crime, there are three or four Arab war crimes against Israelis. As for Deir Yassin, I recommend reading the Jewish Virtual Library's article on the subject:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/th ... eir-yassin

I think it is also worth remembering that the Palestinians and the Arab nations rejected the 1947 UN partition plan, which would have given the Palestinians control over roughly half of the land of the current state of Israel, including the majority of the most fertile areas. The Palestinians were so confident that their Arab brothers could wipe out the Jews that they rejected the partition plan and welcomed the Arab armies to destroy the Jews. But, much to the Palestinians' shock, the Jews, though heavily outnumbered, defeated the invading Arab armies. The Palestinians were lucky that the Jews did not expel every last one of them for welcoming the Arab invasion and for openly anticipating the destruction of the Jews and the theft of their homes and belongings.

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 12 Oct 2021 17:40

mikegriffith1 wrote:
12 Oct 2021 10:45
I'll just say this: For every one alleged or real Israeli war crime, there are three or four Arab war crimes against Israelis.
It looks as an unsourced claim or your private opinion.
mikegriffith1 wrote:
12 Oct 2021 10:45
As for Deir Yassin, I recommend reading the Jewish Virtual Library's article on the subject:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/th ... eir-yassin
I would like to quote your source
The battle to capture Deir Yassin during the 1948 Israeli War of Independence remains one of the most infamous, yet misunderstood, incidents in the history of Israel.
Just four days after the reports from Deir Yassin were published, an Arab force ambushed a Jewish convoy on the way to Hadassah Hospital, killing 77 Jews, including doctors, nurses, patients, and the director of the hospital. Another 23 people were injured. This massacre attracted little attention and is never mentioned by those who are quick to bring up Deir Yassin.
Let's look how it happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadassah_ ... y_massacre
The Hadassah convoy massacre took place on April 13, 1948, when a convoy, escorted by Haganah militia, bringing medical and military supplies and personnel to Hadassah Hospital on Mount Scopus, Jerusalem, was ambushed by Arab forces.
The Haganah had used Mount Scopus as an outpost and a base for a raid on the village of Wadi al-Joz on February 26...
The area covered by the Hadassah hospital had great strategic importance, since it allowed one to take the Arab lines from their rear.
The Arabs claimed that they had attacked the military formation by blowing up the armoured cars. They were unable to make a distinction between military and civilians because, they maintained, all the Jews, including the medical personnel, had taken part in the battle.
The Jews claimed that they had the right to protect their medical convoys with troops. They admitted in the end, according to Jacques de Reynier, that they had been relieving the unit at the Hadassah hospital and furnishing the troop there with ammunition with the same convoys as those of the Red Shield.
De Reynier repeated the position of the Red Cross that a mobile medical unit must move around unarmed and always separately from combat units. One had a choice between having recourse to armed protection or the protection of the Geneva Conventions and the Red Cross flag. Both staging troops in a position of strategic importance and refurnishing them with supplies, de Reynier argued, had nothing to do with the hospital's functions.
Eventually an agreement was reached to separate military from humanitarian convoys.

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 15 Oct 2021 18:49

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafr_Qasim_massacre
The Kafr Qasim massacre took place in the Israeli Arab village of Kafr Qasim situated on the Green Line, at that time, the de facto border between Israel and the Jordanian West Bank on October 29, 1956. It was carried out by the Israel Border Police (Magav), who killed Arab civilians returning from work during a curfew of which they were unaware, imposed earlier in the day on the eve of the Sinai war.[1] In total 48 people died, of which 19 were men, 6 were women and 23 were children aged 8–17.
Only 51 years later
In December 2007, President of Israel Shimon Peres formally apologised for the massacre.

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 16 Oct 2021 08:55

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_o ... _West_Bank
In 1956, the Israeli leader David Ben-Gurion stated that: "Jordan has no right to exist.. The territory to the West of the Jordan should be made an autonomous region of Israel".
However
During the 1967 June War Israel appointed a Military Governor to rule the West Bank, with a remit to retain Jordanian law except where these conflicted with Israel's rights as belligerent occupying power.
At the same time
Israel expelled many people from areas it had conquered, beginning with an estimated 12,000 people who on the very first day were rounded up in the villages of Imwas, Yalo and Bayt Nuba in the Latrun Salient and ordered by the Israeli military into exile eastwards. All three villages were then blown up, and within two years the area was planned as a recreational area now called Canada Park.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imwas
Those in the West Bank who tried to get back found the villages surrounded by tanks, and heard that a military order had rescinded the earlier decision, and could only stand by and watch as their houses were razed.[45] The order, in violation of Article 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, came from Yitzhak Rabin. In his memoirs Dayan recalled that "(Houses were destroyed) not in battle, but as punishment . . in order to chase away the inhabitants."
Ten elderly villagers refused to leave and were never heard of again, and were presumed to have been shot or to have been buried under the demolition rubble.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayt_Nuba
The built up area of Bayt Nuba was destroyed in military engineered explosions after the war's end, an act witnessed by some of the former residents who had fled nearby hills.[29] After the destruction, the remains of the medieval church, first described by Clermont-Ganneau, have not been located.

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 23 Oct 2021 21:33

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/israeli-minis ... te-1482119
Israel's hawkish economy minister, Naftali Bennett,...
now he is a Prime Minister
...has been embroiled in a controversy over his alleged role in a past military operation that led to the massacre of more than 100 Lebanese civilians.
An article published by Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth accused the right-wing leader of leading a 67-men unit he commanded during Israel's 1996 campaign against Hezbollah in Lebanon into an ambush, by changing plans without telling his superiors.
To rescue Bennett's troops, Israel launched an artillery strike in the area that also hit a United Nations base at Qana, eventually killing 102 displaced civilians.

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 24 Oct 2021 15:21

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 96725.html
Six Day War atrocities: Veteran's account of captives in Egyptian uniforms being shot in the desert adds fuel to scandal; 'A prisoner was given a shovel and started to dig. Then he was fired at'
Gabriel Brun, a Jerusalem journalist who served as a signals sergeant- major in the 1967 Six-Day War, described yesterday how he saw fellow Israeli soldiers shoot dead five prisoners of war in Egyptian uniforms.

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 24 Oct 2021 16:57

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
Israel to Probe Deaths of Egyptian POWs in ’56 : Sinai: At Cairo’s request, defense officials will investigate general’s claim that scores were shot.
The case reaches high into Israel’s honored military elite because Biro’s commanding officers were former Defense Minister Ariel Sharon and former Chief of Staff Rafael Eytan--both colonels at the time...
In his stunningly frank, unrepentant account in the paper, Biro told of landing in the Sinai, east of the Mitla Pass, on Oct. 29, 1956, as commander of a paratroop company in Eytan’s Battalion 890--part of Sharon’s 202 Parachute Brigade.
Paratroopers found two large tents with civilian Egyptian workers and took them captive. Two days later, they moved out toward Ras Sudar and killed their prisoners, he said.
“There were exactly 49,” Biro said.
In another case, Biro and Shaul Ziv, a colonel in the army reserves, described firing hundreds of bullets into a truck full of civilians on the road to Ras Sudar.
Biro added: “There were 56 men on the truck. Six remained alive after the first [round of] fire. They too ‘went to sleep’ later on.”

A third incident, in which chained prisoners were massacred at Ras Sudar, was documented by the United Nations after the war, and Israel was asked for an explanation at that time. Eytan reportedly was reprimanded but never tried or formally punished.

snpol
Member
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 Aug 2017 13:35
Location: Moscow

Re: Israeli war crimes during the ME conflict

Post by snpol » 29 Oct 2021 21:33

https://www.hrw.org/reports/1997/israel ... lwo-06.htm
Israeli torture and ill-treatment of security detainees from the West Bank and Gaza Strip has been systematic for many years. In 1987, the Israeli cabinet approved the report of the Landau Commission, a government-appointed committee mandated to review GSS interrogation methods. The commission recommended that the GSS be allowed to use "moderate physical pressure" to obtain information and confessions from security detainees. Israel has never released the guidelines specifying the methods of moderate pressure but maintains that the guidelines prohibit acts that amount to torture. However, Human Rights Watch and other organizations that have investigated the issue have determined that the combination of methods used on a regular basis on detainees brought in for interrogation-including prolonged and painful position abuse, confinement in closet-like spaces and sleep deprivation, hooding, subjection to extremes of noise and to uncomfortable temperatures, and violent shaking-amount, when used in combination with one another and for long periods, to acts of torture.
At the same time
Israel's High Court of Justice has not outlawed these practices. For example, on November 14, 1996, the Israeli High Court of Justice declined to bar the GSS's use of "physical force" in the interrogation of Palestinian security detainee Muhammad Hamdan. Hamdan had, two days before the ruling, requested an interim injunction against the use of physical force during the interrogation, which he alleged included the use of violent shaking, sleep deprivation, and position abuse.
A recent Amnesty International report on Lebanese detainees in Israeli custody reports the use of torture against the eleven detainees...
Torture is a grave breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention and a war crime. All parties to that convention have an obligation to try persons responsible for acts of torture and ill-treatment. Torture is also among the acts prohibited by Article 3, common to the four Geneva Conventions, in non-international armed conflicts.

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”