Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

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wm
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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by wm » 28 Jan 2021 21:52

I meant brutal because of their poverty. Poverty degrades and corrupts people.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 29 Jan 2021 00:25

But they should become much wealthier by moving to Germany, no?

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by wm » 30 Jan 2021 19:03

Traits acquired through generations can't be reversed in a few years.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 30 Jan 2021 19:20

But even with similar traits, people do tend to perform better in the West. Just compare the standard of living of US blacks and US Hispanics to African blacks and Latin American Hispanics, for instance. Some of this might be due to affirmative action, but some of this is due to the benefits of living in a developed country.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by wm » 30 Jan 2021 19:47

Let's compare the criminal rates among the US blacks and the other Americans.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 30 Jan 2021 20:03

Unfortunately, crime rates for US blacks are extremely high. :( This could be why white flight often occurs once large numbers of blacks move into a particular neighborhood or city in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

I've seen mixed signals for US Hispanics, though. There have been arguments that US Hispanics are not that violent in comparison to US whites:

http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/hispanic.htm

https://unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-hispan ... owcomments

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/blog/20 ... _data.html

But Yeah, I would certainly prefer to live in a Hispanic US neighborhood (especially one that looks similar to those here in the Southwestern US) to living in a black US neighborhood.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by wm » 20 Feb 2021 22:39

This is for you, Futurist. A Ukrainian settlement in Czarist Russia:
https://youtu.be/QOwW5wdIt_w

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 21 Feb 2021 02:00

Hi wm,

It looks more like a one-cement-factory, Soviet-era town in the far east of Russia today.

Are you sure that is the right link?

I quite enjoyed it though. Thanks.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by wm » 21 Feb 2021 09:26

She said it was a Ukrainian settlement, so presumably, it was part of the 19th-century Russian government efforts to colonize the east of the Urals (and any remaining empty lands in Russia) with Russian peasants, Ukrainians, Poles, and even Jews.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 14 Mar 2021 21:38

FWIW, getting Ukrainians to move to territories such as Siberia, the Russian Far East, and Central Asia in huge numbers was probably Tsarist Russia's best shot at permanently Russifying a huge number of Ukrainians.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 14 Mar 2021 22:38

Hi Futurist,

I think you may be right.

This map from the 1926 Soviet Census shows how important Ukrainians were in the Russian settlement of the East: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... s_1926.jpg

Today all their descendants presumably speak Russian.

It also shows that in 1926 there were some areas of Russia next to Ukraine that were majority Ukrainian speaking.

This one shows that in 1926 Donetsk and Lugansk, the two areas now disputed, Ukrainians were in a big majority: https://gis.huri.harvard.edu/historical ... ensus.html

The reason why Donetsk and Lugansk are now disputed is because of Soviet state-sponsored immigration by Russian-language speakers to work in the area since 1926.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 14 Mar 2021 23:51

The Ukrainian territories in the Russian Far East even tried to secede during the Russian Civil War! Specifically Green Ukraine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Ukraine

As for ethnic Russians in Ukraine in 1926, they were not a majority in the Donbass in 1926 but they nevertheless made up over 1/3 of the total population in the industrial core of the Donbass even back then:

https://external-preview.redd.it/WntFhM ... 3e39d10c21

Image

Add in ethnic Ukrainian Russophones, and you could possibly get half of the Donbass population in 1926 be comprised of either Russians or quasi-Russians.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 14 Mar 2021 23:56

Here's a map of native language in Ukraine in 1926, I believe:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... R-1926.PNG

Image

Red = Ukrainian
Blue = Russian
Yellow/Gold/Green = Other languages

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by henryk » 15 Mar 2021 20:45

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine
Ethnicites Ukraine 1926 1939.jpg
Breakdown of others.
Surprising to see only a 25% decease of Poles 1926-1930.
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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 15 Mar 2021 22:57

That's a 25% decrease of Poles from 1926 to 1939--not from 1926 to 1930!

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