Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

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Futurist
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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 03 Jan 2021 00:06

Not all Germans with a migrant background actually have their origins in the Muslim world, though. Ex-USSR Germans certainly don't, for instance.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 03 Jan 2021 15:45

Hi ljadw,

Fair point. That needs clarification.

As does the status of the offspring of mixed marriages and relationships.

Sid.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 03 Jan 2021 15:48

Hi Futurist,

Very true.

Nor are all those from the "Moslem World" necessarily Moslems. The majority if Iraqi and Syrian Christians have migrated in the last ten years, a good number to Germany, as have 60,000 Yazidis and around 10,000 Copts.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 05 Jan 2021 09:05

Sid Guttridge wrote:
03 Jan 2021 15:48
Hi Futurist,

Very true.

Nor are all those from the "Moslem World" necessarily Moslems. The majority if Iraqi and Syrian Christians have migrated in the last ten years, a good number to Germany, as have 60,000 Yazidis and around 10,000 Copts.

Cheers,

Sid.
What exactly makes Germany so attractive to them?

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by ljadw » 05 Jan 2021 17:43

Sid Guttridge wrote:
03 Jan 2021 15:45
Hi ljadw,

Fair point. That needs clarification.

As does the status of the offspring of mixed marriages and relationships.

Sid.
The reports are that 20 % of the German population is from foreign origin. As there are not millions of Europeans who migrated to Germany, one must admit that millions of Africans, people of the ME and of Asia have migrated to Germany (millions are still illegally in Germany ) and the majority of them are Muslims .
The fugitives from Afghanistan are Muslims , most of the Africans are Muslims, most of the Iraqi are Muslims .
There are between 2 and 7 million Turks in Germany and Erdogan visited Germany during the Turkish presidential elections and exhorted them to vote for him .
Every day there are in German cities fights against Turks and Kurds ,who are also Muslims .

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by wm » 05 Jan 2021 23:54

Muslims could be successfully assimilated too, it only costs more.
The problem is the sheer absurdity of that, as it changes nothing considering that up to a billion people live in abject poverty.
And that most of those successfully reaching Germany are the highly educated, the most desperate, and criminals - not the people who really need help.

Germany is siphoning off the people their homeland desperately needs (i.e., the highly educated) and importing the least desirable people (i.e., criminals.)
It's another case of a destructive woke policy.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Jan 2021 00:28

Hi ljadw,

You post, "As there are not millions of Europeans who migrated to Germany."

This appears not to be the case.

In 2017 there were reportedly 2.6 million people from the Balkans (not including Turkey-in-Europe) in Germany.

There are reportedly 969,000 people of Italian ancestry in Germany and 596,127 Italian citizens.

Furthermore, although Germany does not recognize its longstanding Polish minority as anything other than fully integrated Germans, the Poles reckon there are between 2 and 3 million people of Polish descent in Germany.

There are also 600,000 of Spanish descent and 155,918 Spanish citizens in Germany, and 174,363 Portuguese as well.

In addition, in the last 30 years 1,797,084 Russian Germans and 365,415 other Russians have arrived legally..

So, we are definitely talking in the millions. Just the above total up to about 10 million, which is about 13% of Germany's population with origins in other European countries.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 06 Jan 2021 01:24

Sid, where'd you get your data from?

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 06 Jan 2021 01:26

wm wrote:
05 Jan 2021 23:54
Muslims could be successfully assimilated too, it only costs more.
The problem is the sheer absurdity of that, as it changes nothing considering that up to a billion people live in abject poverty.
And that most of those successfully reaching Germany are the highly educated, the most desperate, and criminals - not the people who really need help.

Germany is siphoning off the people their homeland desperately needs (i.e., the highly educated) and importing the least desirable people (i.e., criminals.)
It's another case of a destructive woke policy.
I thought that "the most desperate" do in fact need help?

As for siphoning off other countries' smart people, Canada is also guilty of this--as is Australia. For that matter, various US cities have likely experienced brain drain over the last several decades--in some cases, possibly even SEVERE brain drain.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by wm » 06 Jan 2021 10:07

I suppose I meant the most brutal rather than the desperate.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by ljadw » 06 Jan 2021 11:53

Sid Guttridge wrote:
06 Jan 2021 00:28
Hi ljadw,

You post, "As there are not millions of Europeans who migrated to Germany."

This appears not to be the case.

In 2017 there were reportedly 2.6 million people from the Balkans (not including Turkey-in-Europe) in Germany.

There are reportedly 969,000 people of Italian ancestry in Germany and 596,127 Italian citizens.

Furthermore, although Germany does not recognize its longstanding Polish minority as anything other than fully integrated Germans, the Poles reckon there are between 2 and 3 million people of Polish descent in Germany.

There are also 600,000 of Spanish descent and 155,918 Spanish citizens in Germany, and 174,363 Portuguese as well.

In addition, in the last 30 years 1,797,084 Russian Germans and 365,415 other Russians have arrived legally..

So, we are definitely talking in the millions. Just the above total up to about 10 million, which is about 13% of Germany's population with origins in other European countries.

Cheers,


Sid.
Italian , Spanish, Portugese citizens who live (mostly temporarily ) in Germany, have not migrated to Germany .
And the 2 or 3 million people of Polish descent living in Germany ,are a myth : these people are the descendants from German citizens who lived in West Prussia,Posen, Silesia and who went before 1914 to the Ruhr because there was more work in the Ruhr.
There were legally no Poles before 1914 .
I doubt also the figure of 1,797,084 ''German "Russians ( not Russian Germans ),the so called Wolga Germans who mostly did not speak German ,and of whom a big number left Germany again .
There are in Brussels a lot of British citizens who live there because HQ of EU is in Brussels, but they did not migrate to Belgium .

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Jan 2021 12:21

Hi ljadw,

Whatever your quibbles, your claim that, ".....there are not millions of Europeans who migrated to Germany.", is wrong. Not only is it wrong, but it is wrong by a very wide margin.

Cheers,

Sid.
Last edited by Sid Guttridge on 06 Jan 2021 12:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Jan 2021 12:25

Hi Futurist,

By Googling "Italians in Germany", "Spanish in Germany", etc., etc., and scrolling down.

I didn't try all European nationalities and "French in Germany" didn't throw up anything relevant.

I already knew that there a lot of Italian immigrants to Germany in the decades after WWII. When their numbers alone came close to contradicting ljadw's claim, I thought I would see how many from other European nationalities had migrated to Germany. There were about 10 million that I could find, without being comprehensive.

This link is the only one I have found that includes them all for 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... nic_groups

It reckons that 9.8% of Germans are from other European nationalities (about 10 million people). [The Federal Statistical Office defines persons with a migrant background as all persons who migrated to the present area of the Federal Republic of Germany after 1949, plus all foreign nationals born in Germany and all persons born in Germany as German nationals with at least one parent who migrated to Germany or was born in Germany as a foreign national. The figures presented here are based on this definition only.]

Further down it separately gives those citizens from these countries just working in Germany.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 07 Jan 2021 00:12

Thanks, Sid! BTW, it's worth noting that, in terms of absolute numbers, Germany appears to have the world's second-largest immigrant population, behind only the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... population

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Re: Additional *realistic* post-1800 cases of nations acquiring Lebensraum (living space)?

Post by Futurist » 16 Jan 2021 08:59

wm wrote:
06 Jan 2021 10:07
I suppose I meant the most brutal rather than the desperate.
The "most brutal" such as criminals ... who else?

Educated Syrians, etc might be a net boon to Germany. Yes, Syria might need them for rebuilding, but at the same time, at least some of them might fit in better in Germany. More secular-minded Muslims might certainly fit in better in the US or Canada than in much of the Muslim world, for instance.

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