Armor in Balkanes apr 41?

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Armor in Balkanes apr 41?

Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 25 Feb 2006 13:34

Hello friends

Whether there are data about presence of medium tanks (on types) in the Italian army on apr 1941?

best regards

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » 25 Feb 2006 13:51

We have:

the 31st Tank Regiment in Albania had been re-organized cancelling the difference between light and medium tank battalions. So in April 1941, each battalion of 31st had one medium (on M13) and two light (on L3) companies. I don't remmeber if there were three or four battalions. It performed well against Yugos around Scutari

the 33rd Tank Regiment received an M13 platoon for Yugoslavia invasion; it gave a bad performance

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 25 Feb 2006 14:34

Whether there are no data about number of tanks in these battalions for April 1941? Or about their losses in April 1941 version Yugos and Greece?

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » 25 Feb 2006 16:04

In italian army the medium tank platoon was on five tanks and the company on 16.

About losses:
-no fought against greeks so no losses
-the five M tanks attached to Littorio suffered of costant misworking and were constantly on the back of advancing column. They were more a trouble for mechanics than for Yugos
-no data about losses of Centauro, sorry (but not so much high,anyway)

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 25 Feb 2006 16:19

In January, 1941 against Greeks IV battalion of edium tanks battled. It has been given to a division Centauro . In fights for valley Tepeleni Italians have lost about 20 tanks M13/40. The majority - knocked. By April, 1941 - two mouths (hardly more than 10 tanks) have thrown the rests of a battalion on the Albanian-Yugoslavian border.



The success Centauro in Montenegro was somewhat provided with 2 company of tanks M13/40 from of IV tank battalion. Having lost half of tanks, the battalion has provided approach of a tank division on Podgorica.

What will tell about ithis?

Regards

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Lupo Solitario
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Post by Lupo Solitario » 25 Feb 2006 16:48

1) your question was openly about april 1941 and my answer too. What had happened before is another story

2) between january and april there had been all time to fill the ranks

3) As I told, in april 1941, tank battalions in Albania were structured on a "mixed" light/medium TO&E. I ignore losses in the three days of anti-Yugo campaign but I belive they could have been high

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 26 Feb 2006 09:30

I have an information about number in april 1941 at Balkanes 12 carro carrozzato M13\40. How close is it to the truth?

I have a question. Were there carro carrozato M11/39 in the Russian front in 1941-1942?

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Davide Pastore
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Post by Davide Pastore » 26 Feb 2006 10:22

Alex Yeliseenko wrote:I have a question. Were there carro carrozato M11/39 in the Russian front in 1941-1942?
No, definitely not. Of the 100 built, 24 were in Ethiopia, 72 (battalions I/32° and II/32°) were sent in Lybia in 1940, and the remaining 4 assigned to Italian schools.

Davide

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 26 Feb 2006 10:38

Hello
4 assigned to Italian schools.
Till what time they were serviced?

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Davide Pastore
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Post by Davide Pastore » 26 Feb 2006 10:45

Alex Yeliseenko wrote:
4 assigned to Italian schools.
Till what time they were serviced?
R.E. 2576 (chassis 0001, engine 00001) in August 43 was at the Scuola Centrale Fanteria at S. Sepolcro
R.E. 2673 (chassis 0375, engine 00025) (ditto)
R.E. 2692 (chassis 0397, engine 00047) (ditto)
R.E. 2679 (chassis 0381, engine 00082) on 11 Feb 42 was brocken up

None survived the war.

Davide

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Davide Pastore
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Post by Davide Pastore » 26 Feb 2006 11:02

Lupo Solitario wrote:the 31st Tank Regiment in Albania had been re-organized cancelling the difference between light and medium tank battalions. So in April 1941, each battalion of 31st had one medium (on M13) and two light (on L3) companies. I don't remmeber if there were three or four battalions. It performed well against Yugos around Scutari
Found now in Pignato-Cappellano (page 97-98): the IV/32° (M) was sent as reinforcement to the 31°, originally with 4 battalions, now with only two - II/31° (L) & IV/31° (L). During or after March 1941 it is said that "the two M companies" were attached each to one of the I/31° (L) & IV/31° (L) battalions (so apparently there were two M companies only) however the II/31° (L) is still listed so apparently the I/31° (L) has shown up in the meantime. No trace of the III/31° (L) until September 1941, when it was merged with the IV/31° (L).

Davide

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 26 Feb 2006 11:18

tHANK yOU David

You very well understand the situation. Do you have an information about Italian gruppo carrozzato at Balkanes in 1942-1943?

I have not enough information from russian and english sources.

rEGARDS

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Davide Pastore
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Post by Davide Pastore » 26 Feb 2006 11:18

Alex Yeliseenko wrote:I have an information about number in april 1941 at Balkanes 12 carro carrozzato M13\40. How close is it to the truth?
On 24 March 31° Reggimento had 50x L3 plus 15x M13, and during 11-15 April was involved in fighting around Kopliku, so it might have lost some more tank. However, the five M13 with Littorio are probably to be added.

Davide

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Davide Pastore
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Post by Davide Pastore » 26 Feb 2006 11:36

Alex Yeliseenko wrote:Do you have an information about Italian gruppo carrozzato at Balkanes in 1942-1943?
Pignato-Cappellano lists these units (although it's not clear if they served all at the same time, and if so what date they represent):

SLOVENIA-DALMAZIA (SLO.DA.)
- I Gruppo Squadroni San Giusto (four L companies, part of 3ª Divisione Celere)
- II Gruppo Squadroni San Marco (four L companies, part of 2ª Divisione Celere)
- II/4° (L) battalion (flame-throwing L3)
- 2ª Compagnia Autonoma (flame-throwing L3)
- II/31° (L) battalion (to XVIII Corps)
- two independent AB platoons (to VI Corps)
- ten more ABs (assigned to various commands)
- Compagnia Meccanizzata di Zara (details unknown)
plus some railway units (one company of converted AB plus ten armored trains)

MONTENEGRO
- III/31° (L) battalion
- one additional L company
- another additional L company, manned by G.a.F. (Guardia alla Frontiera)

ALBANIA
- 31ª company L
- in 1943: II Gruppo of Cavalleggeri Guide (L6)
- in 1943: IV Gruppo of Nizza Cavalleria (AB)

GRECIA
- 51ª company L (at Krete)
- from Dec 1942: one Gruppo Semoventi 75/18 plus one Gruppo Semoventi 47/32
- from 1943: an independent L6 squadron plus a platoon

DODECANNESO (Rhodos)
- CCCXII battalion (two M companies plus one AB platoon)

No numbers, sorry.

Davide

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G. Trifkovic
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Post by G. Trifkovic » 26 Feb 2006 15:53

Mr.Davide,
plus ten armored trains
Could you post more details on the trains,their armament,dislocation etc?

Many thanks in advance,

Gaius

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