HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

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Urmel
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HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Urmel » 17 Jan 2011 08:20

From ULTRA messages the British concluded that it was KG26 that hit her. In the British naval records online it only ever says 'aerial torpedo'.

Does anyone know for sure whether it was the Germans or the Italians?

Thanks in advance.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Dili » 17 Jan 2011 14:10

Italian sources say 132ºGruppo Aerosilurante with Savoias S.79

Also this:
http://web.archive.org/web/200706300309 ... stom2.html

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Urmel » 17 Jan 2011 21:59

I know that. Since they are uncertain whether it was a sub or an Italian torpedo bomber I don't think it is reliable.

ULTRA deciphered that KG26 claimed a hit on a cruiser or similar, and they deduced that this would have been Glenroy.

How certain are the Italian sources?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Dili » 17 Jan 2011 22:41

Are you sure that Germans said "Torpedo" or only "hit"?
./6 KG26 operated until September41 in Med and was the only German unit trained in torpedos in Med in 1941. I think there wasn't a German unit with torpedos in Nov41 in Mediterranean theatre.
There was rare the use of torpedos by Germans up until 1942, they converted all KG26 or a big part of it in Grosseto in 42.
The italian article Storia Militare i saw they have 3 hits in August 41 and then hits start only in August 42.

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by P.108 » 18 Jan 2011 12:40

In the book: history of Italian torpedo bombers is indicated that "November 23, 1941, two S79 attacked a ship, escorted by four destroyers and fighter planes. The ship was hit and was seen to heel, but the two Italian aircraft returned to base damaged"

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Urmel » 19 Jan 2011 07:35

Dili wrote:Are you sure that Germans said "Torpedo" or only "hit"?
./6 KG26 operated until September41 in Med and was the only German unit trained in torpedos in Med in 1941. I think there wasn't a German unit with torpedos in Nov41 in Mediterranean theatre.
There was rare the use of torpedos by Germans up until 1942, they converted all KG26 or a big part of it in Grosseto in 42.
The italian article Storia Militare i saw they have 3 hits in August 41 and then hits start only in August 42.
On 11/11 the return of two torpedo staffeln of KG26 detached to Luftflotte 4 in Romania was ordered. On 23/11 Fliegerkorps X reported a sortie by 3 a/c carrying torpedoes. 6./KG26 is reported in Eleusis on 23/11.

Scroll down a bit here and you find locations for 6./KG26 including the moves in 1941, and confirmation that they were torpedo-carrying.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Dili » 19 Jan 2011 16:03

I said 6./KG26 was torpedo carrying so there is no disagreement there , the remaining KG.26 was torpedo trained in Grosseto in 1942. The link you provided says that unit 6./KG26 was out of Med in Nov41. But if you have other sources i have have no issue with it, if they are online please link.

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Urmel » 19 Jan 2011 21:09

Dili wrote:I said 6./KG26 was torpedo carrying so there is no disagreement there , the remaining KG.26 was torpedo trained in Grosseto in 1942. The link you provided says that unit 6./KG26 was out of Med in Nov41. But if you have other sources i have have no issue with it, if they are online please link.
They arrived back from Romania on 23/11/41 together with 1./KG28 and started patrols shortly thereafter. No online sources, but ULTRA intercepts.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Dili » 19 Jan 2011 22:48

"shortly thereafter" makes after 23/11/41 no?

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Urmel » 20 Jan 2011 07:40

Yes, 24/11 I think.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Dili » 21 Jan 2011 00:08

But the attack was done 23/11? That would mean there was another torpedo Luftwaffe unit in Med to make the attack that i am no aware of if we are to believe it was done by Germans. I think a Luftwaffe expert might bring some info.

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Urmel » 21 Jan 2011 08:19

I'll check again, it might have been 23/11, the material is difficult to work with, and I may have mistaken the exact day. In any ccase, I thought HMS Glenroy was hit 25/11? There was no other LW torpedo unit in the Med prior to the return of 6./KG26, I think.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Dili » 21 Jan 2011 17:59

The hit was in 23/11

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Urmel » 25 Jan 2011 18:45

Quite. Thanks for correcting that, this is an apparent error in the ULTRA files. That settles it then, I don't think they would have patrolled at that time.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: HMS Glenroy - November 1941 torpedo hit

Post by Dili » 25 Jan 2011 21:13

Glad i helped. Can you say for how long 6./KG26 operated in Med in this deployment?

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