Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

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PanzerVI
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Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by PanzerVI » 12 Apr 2021 21:52

Good evening esteemed gentlemen

It has been quite awhile since I haven't posted anything here altough an old and proud member since 2002.

One of my latest chores is to properly compile a theater of operations situation of the soviet offensive (with a small aid from romanian shattered forces as newly installed allies on the 23rd August 1944).

Got a large scale map from Platt's book of the 3rd Geb Division (mainly with it's 137 and 138 Gebirgs Regiments and small auxiliary abteilungen) which indicate clearly thrusts coming from the soviet 240th rifle division, 38 rifle Division, 133 rifle division, 42 rifle division and 159 BEF. AB. Many of these have been havily involved in the battles of Targu Frumos and Iasi and I am guessing all under the 50 soviet army corps ?

Maps would be of great help or even war journals with specific battle positions.

Many many thanks and stay safe y'all

wwilson
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by wwilson » 13 Apr 2021 06:53

May be of some help. Per the Soviet Stavka order of battle.

1 August 1944:

In 40th Combined Arms Army (part of 2d Ukrainian Front)-- 50th Rifle Corps had 74th and 240th Rifle Divisions. 51st Rifle Corps had 4th Guards Airborne Division, 42d Guards Rifle Division, and 232d Rifle Division. 104th Rifle Corps had 38th and 133d Rifle Divisions. 163d Rifle Division was subordinated directly to army headquarters, as were the 54th and 159th Fortified Regions.

1 September 1944:

50th Rifle Corps had 133d and 240th Rifle Divisions. 51st Rifle Corps had 38th, 232d, and 42d Guards Rifle Divisions. These corps were subordinated to 40th Combined Arms Army, part of 2nd Ukrainian Front. 40th Army also controlled the 54th and 159th Fortified Regions.

Cheers

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PanzerVI
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by PanzerVI » 13 Apr 2021 07:20

Thank you kindly wwilson

Cheers

wwilson
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by wwilson » 13 Apr 2021 07:55

PanzerVI,

Sorry I could not help more.

There is a map here, but not of the detail you are looking for:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... %D1%8F.jpg

Cheers

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PanzerVI
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by PanzerVI » 13 Apr 2021 12:37

I know that one mate, it's actually the entire southern front of the offensive with the overall thrust from Moldavia to the Black Sea.

Thank you for your help

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by Sid Guttridge » 13 Apr 2021 13:12

There is a basic set of maps for Romanian operations in Northern Transilvania in Third Axis, Fourth Ally by Axworthy. Also a description of their reorganisation and operations.

Cheers,

sid.

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PanzerVI
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by PanzerVI » 13 Apr 2021 13:19

Hey Sid

Unfortunately it doesent cover the northern Carpathian operations between 23.08 and mid september 1944.

Thanks buddy

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by Sid Guttridge » 13 Apr 2021 13:22

Which divisions and towns are you interested in?

Sid

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PanzerVI
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by PanzerVI » 13 Apr 2021 13:27

Sid Guttridge wrote:
13 Apr 2021 13:22
Which divisions and towns are you interested in?

Sid
Sid

240th rifle division, 38 rifle Division, 133 rifle division, 42 rifle division and 159 BEF. AB and overall 50th Rifle Corps. The main area of operations is Suceava and Neamt counties pushing through the 2 pass points in each one (Gura Humorului in Suceava and Poiana Largu, Neamt). The specific operations in Bukovina would be starting from Pojorata, Breaza, Moldovita, Lucina, Iacobeni, the ones from Neamt : Suha, Malini, Poiana Largului, Borca, Brosteni, Vatra Dornei. The german ones I already know and have documentation fron them also the romanian ones.

Cheers

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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by Sid Guttridge » 13 Apr 2021 14:05

I happened to have Epopeea Vinatorilor de Munte next to me and thought it might have a relevant map in it, but unfortunately not.

Sorry,

Sid.

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PanzerVI
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by PanzerVI » 13 Apr 2021 14:11

Romanian material on that was subjected to heavy censorship and usually glorifies only the romanian small contribution to the skirmishes, making it seem like the rookie remnants of the 3rd Border guards Division and some from the 6th Boarder guard division were the bulk of the thrusts making spartan like efforts to clear the land of "fascists and horthysts". This is a post-soviet destalinization of romanian literature started mid 60's.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by Sid Guttridge » 13 Apr 2021 14:51

Hi PanzerVI,

That is true, but what you write also downplays the significant casualties the Romanians took in Allied ranks in the last 9 months of the war. I wouldn't be surprised if they were as heavy as the British in north-west Europe in the same period.

And besides, what country wasn't "bigging up" its role?

There were no "3rd Border guards Division" or "6th Boarder guard division". These were lightly equipped frontier guard regiments of limited potential.

Cheers,

Sid..

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PanzerVI
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by PanzerVI » 23 Apr 2021 21:49

Anyone any further info in combat maps on Jager Division 8 in Sept 1944 within the Carpathians ? Much appreciated

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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by GregSingh » 24 Apr 2021 07:30

Plenty of detailed maps for 50 rifle corps here:
50 ск
Just choose a time period and click to load a historical map in the top right corner.
The first step to immortality is death.
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PanzerVI
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Re: Romanian Carpathians offensive August-September 1944

Post by PanzerVI » 28 Apr 2021 18:34

Thanks Greg

Great addition in terms of strategical maps. Been trying to see if I can get it to work for all units in a designated timeframe on the map but it will work only if you select first the specific unit.

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