Soviet vs. Polska. Sep.1939.

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Soviet vs. Polska. Sep.1939.

Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 28 Jan 2007 15:28

Soviet vs.Polish. tank fight

Tank fights between Soviet and Poles in September, 1939 were very much a unusual occurrence. I have found only one such case.

On September, 20th. Road Stanislaw - Galic(h.) 23 Soviet light-tanks brigade on September, 20th was included into fighting contact with semi-company R-35. It was about city Buisk. According to the Russian sources, Soviet used ATG. As a result of fight one R-35 has been destroyed. One more tank was damaged. Then it was burnt by Poles at deviation.

Source: Bronetehnika i tankovye voiska Polshi, 1919-1939, Tankomaster 6/2005.


The information: 23 LT-brigade had on 09.17 - 209 ВТ, 9Т-26 and 5 Armored cars.

Any knows more about it fight?

KaSeF
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Post by KaSeF » 28 Jan 2007 18:33

I found the mention (http://derela.republika.pl/vickersp.htm) of the tanks fight (probably): "Two or tree Vickers [twin-turret] (and tankettes) was destroyed on September, 18th. by soviets tanks from 23. Tank-brigade."
Regards
KASEF

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 28 Jan 2007 18:55

KaSeF wrote:I found the mention (http://derela.republika.pl/vickersp.htm) of the tanks fight (probably): "Two or tree Vickers [twin-turret] (and tankettes) was destroyed on September, 18th. by soviets tanks from 23. Tank-brigade."
Regards
KASEF
Thanks, KASEF. It is not present in Russian sources known to me.

Regards.

Alex.

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Musashi
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Post by Musashi » 28 Jan 2007 19:59

You have an interesting article about a captured Polish R35 tank here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... mor+armour

Regards,
Krzysiek

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henryk
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Post by henryk » 28 Jan 2007 23:39

http://felsztyn.tripod.com/id18.html
Finally, even in the southern sector there was fighting with Soviet troops. Thus the KOP Regiment "Podole", apart from numerous smaller encounters along the border, defended the line of the Dniestr River until the evening of September 17, when the crucial bridge over it at Uscieczko was blown up by Polish troops. There were two clashes of Polish and Soviet armoured forces - one at Nizniow, on the river Dniestr, on September 17th; the second at Krasne, to the east of Lwow, on September 19th or 20th.
Much of this material is excerpted (verbatim from the English summary or translated from the Polish) from the book "Wojna Polsko-Sowiecka, 1939" by Ryszard Szawlowski (pre-1989 pseudonym "Karol Liszewski"), 3rd edition, Warszawa, 1997, Wydawnictwo Antyk-Marcin Dybowski (ISBN 83-86482-49-4).

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Wirgil
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Post by Wirgil » 13 May 2007 20:42

I know it's an old topic, but:

These tanks destroyed by a Soviet 23d tank brigade were two-turret old Vickers tanks, which were used in a Polish CWBP (Tank forces training center) for training issues. These tanks were mobilized after September, 1st.

zawisza1976
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Post by zawisza1976 » 14 May 2007 15:08

I can onlu give informations about fights of Russia Tanks and Polish forces equiped with wz. 38 guns. But i dont now if that interest you?

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 20 May 2007 03:43

Henryk,

There is also the tank Battle of Lyczakow on september 19 1939 where the Poles in the beginning of the Battle push back the Soviets, you mentioned about east of Lwow, is it this one or another Battle?

Regards

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 20 May 2007 08:49

zawisza1976 wrote:I can onlu give informations about fights of Russia Tanks and Polish forces equiped with wz. 38 guns. But i dont now if that interest you?
This theme is interesting to me. I shall be grateful for your material.

Regards.

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 20 May 2007 08:55

Wirgil wrote:I know it's an old topic, but:

These tanks destroyed by a Soviet 23d tank brigade were two-turret old Vickers tanks, which were used in a Polish CWBP (Tank forces training center) for training issues. These tanks were mobilized after September, 1st.
Thanks for info!

Regards.

zawisza1976
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Post by zawisza1976 » 20 May 2007 19:19

Ok, Alex. I'll serach in my books end give you some informations. But it will take some time to prepare and translate this battles (about a week will be this done). Sorry, i dont have much time.

Regards, Marek

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henryk
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Post by henryk » 20 May 2007 22:07

Benoit
There are a number of Krasne in the Ukraine. My guess is the battle was at the one 46 km to the east. The others are over 100 km to the east, or in other directions. The only Lyczakow (Lychakiv) I can find is a Lwow (Lviv) suburb, in which the old Lyczakowski Cemetery is located. Based on this, the battles are not the same.

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 21 May 2007 03:36

Henryk,

That is really appreciated.

About the the invasion of Poland by the Soviets on september 17 1939, I found this interesting Battle that the Poles won against the Soviets, it is the Battle of Szack:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Szack

Regards

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henryk
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Post by henryk » 21 May 2007 18:52

Benoit
Thank you for the link. Very interesting. I was surprised to read that the last battle was at Kock, ending 6 Oct. I Had previously read that the last battle was at Hel, but the link shows it ending 2 Oct.

zawisza1976
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Post by zawisza1976 » 28 May 2007 18:58

Ok, im starting.

Battles where tanks was destroyed (too many for this small battles where they not loose a tank):

1. 21.09.1939 battle in Orany (before afternoon)
- Polish KOP "Wilno" and KOP "Orany"
- Russian 100 Shooter Division (Dywizja Strzelców)
Russian looses: 2 tanks destroyed, 1 damage

2. 17-19.09.1939 battle at river Slucza
- Polish commander: pplk Nikodem Sulik
- Polish regiment KOP "Sarny" with: 2 fortress baons "Sarny" and "Malynsk", 2 border baons "Rokitno" and "Berezne", cavalry squadron "Bystrzyce" - all 4000 soldiers in line 80km to defend
- Russian: 60 Shooter Division (Dywizja Strzelców): 11274 soldiers (tanks: T-26 - 12, T-37 - 19)

3. 21.09.1939 battle at Borowicze
- Polish 3 regiment KOP
- Russian: 87 Shooter Division
Russian looses:
21.09.1939 - 2 tanks destroyed
22.09.1939 - 4 tanks destroyed
23.09.1939 - 3 regiment KOP surrender

21.09.1939 - was achive concentration of forces KOP: 8700 soldiers

KOP - Border Safeguard Corps

Next: Battle of Szack

P.S.1 Looses of kill sodiers was exaggerate during soviet generals and russian literature so i don't bring up this.
P.S.2 This what i write is only data i have (but soon i will have huge book and i'm gonna have more detail data :))
P.S.3 Time, time and ones more time.

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