Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

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Larry D.
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Larry D. » 29 Apr 2021 19:35

No. The Flak entries appear in both Teilen I und II.

For June 1944 in France you will need:
Bundesarchiv-Militäraechiv (BA-MA)
Abschüsslisten
:
BA-MA Film C2036N II.Teil (Lw.-Claims ETO) (incl. Flak, 19 May 44 to 31 Oct 44; Dec 44).
Caution:
Nearly all of the 18 or 19 16-mm Abschüss films are of very poor quality and many of the entries are either illegible or barely llegible. The entries were made with a light No. 3 or 4 pencil or with a colored pencil by Luftwaffenhelferinnen (female auxiliaries) in the Luftwaffenpersonalamt and these entries have faded over time.

There is possibly one further source: in BA-MA Signatur RL 5 (Chef der Personellen Rüstung und NS-Führung) are 506 folders containing voluminous and very detailed Flak-Abschüssmeldungen. Each Flakabteilung has its own folder, I am told. Whether or not this collection includes the Flak units in Normandy in June 1944, I have no clue. You might want to e-mail BA-MA Freiburg and/or their reproduction services jobber (Selke) and ask them.
[ https://www.bundesarchiv.de/EN/Navigati ... opies.html ]

L.

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AETIUS 1980
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 30 Apr 2021 06:12

Still thank you for your help. I will try to find some answers by this way.
Regards
Romain

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Sam Wren » 23 Jun 2021 00:53

Here is what is showing on the BAMA website - unfortunately none have been uploaded online. I couldn't find anything for 835.
Screen Shot 2021-06-22 at 6.02.35 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-06-22 at 5.51.55 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-06-22 at 4.34.45 PM.png
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Larry D.
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Larry D. » 23 Jun 2021 17:51

Great to see you back on AHF, Sam!
And thanks again for all of your generous help in the past. :thumbsup:

Larry deZ. 8-)


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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 23 Jun 2021 18:39

I think that the lack of documentation for leicht.Flak.Abteilung.835, at least the two resident platoons on the outskirts of Carpiquet;
_ I zug./2./Flak.Abt.835: Franqueville (Wn 130, 3 X 3.7 cm Flak).
_ II zug./2./Flak.Abt.835: 300 meters north-west of Marcelet castle (Wn 142, 3 X 3.7 cm Flak),
is not a difficulty in itself. Subordinated to Leicht.Flak.Abteilung.996 (v) whose Stab is at Wn 126 (La Maladrerie quarry, north-west of Caen), it could therefore be that the reports of the events of 5, 6 and 7 June are listed with the leader unit ?

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Larry D. » 23 Jun 2021 18:53

le.Flak-Abt. 835 (v)
Formed spring 1942 in Luftgau XIII as Reserve-Flak-Abt. 835 with Stab (new) and 4 batteries numbered 1.-4./835. Redesignated le.Flak-Abt. 835 (v) between July and October 1942. (Tessin; Kannapin; www.ww2.dk)
Lineage and Subordination: see: Tessin or (www.ww2.dk).
History
1942-44: Cherbourg area under Flak-Rgt. 30. (Tessin)
4 May 42: all or elements operational in the Cherbourg area. (BA-MA Ob.d.L./OKL claims files)
Aug 43: 2. Batterie re-designated 5./gem.Flak-Abt. 344 and replaced by renaming 1./le.Flak-Abt. 763. (Kannapin)
Mar 44: Cherbourg under Flak-Rgt. 30. (Tessin)
10 May 44: Cherbourg. (ULTRA)
7 Jun 44: several Züge of Flak-Abt. 835 fighting at Franqueville/5.25 km WNW of Caen city center claimed destruction of 2 Allied tanks and then spiked their guns as they were about to be overrun. (ULTRA KV6892)
29 Jun 44: Abt., less 2. Batterie, destroyed in Cherbourg. (Tessin)
Jul 44 – May 45: 2. Batterie/835 was operational to the end of the war in the West under III. Flakkorps but no details have been found. (Kannapin)
FpNs: Stab (L 26649), 1. Batterie (L 14859), 2. Batterie (L 10718, later L 05284), 3 Batterie (L 04027), 4. Batterie (L 14658).
Kommandeur:
Obstlt. Otto Biesmer (? - 10/42)
Maj. (d.R.) Dr. Adolf Müller (10/42 - 6/44?)'

L.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 23 Jun 2021 19:47

Really good information about 7 June, even if it seems to me difficult to destroy those Tanks with 3,7 cm Flak. If such a fact is confirmed, it would then be the southern points of Canadian advance on this day, just before noon.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Sam Wren » 24 Jun 2021 03:17

Hi Larry, hope you & your family are doing well.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 24 Jun 2021 07:29

After research, I found the presence of a V.Zug / 3.le.Flak.Abt.835 near Franqueville in October 1942. Resulting from the transformation of 4./Res.Flak.Abt.241. Equipped with three 8.8 cm Flaks, it can justify the destruction of the armored vehicles mentioned on June 7. Redundant section of the 3rd battery, it could well have been absorbed by the 2nd and continued to serve until D.Day. Need to be confirmed.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Larry D. » 24 Jun 2021 13:48

@Sam: thanks for that, Sam, and the same thoughts and wishes to you and your family.

@Aetius: great researching!

I sure wish the Flakwaffe generated more interest in the Luftwaffe historical community than it does. Instead, it's all aircraft, especially fighters, aces, who shot down who, aircraft markings and related.

L.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 28 Jun 2021 13:39

Any information about Gemischte flak Abteilung 266 between April and June 1944?
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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Larry D. » 28 Jun 2021 13:56

gem.Flak-Abt. 266(v)
Formed 26 August 1939 in Hamburg with the order for general mobilization from cadre and other assets taken from II./Flak-Rgt. 26. Initially as Reserve Flak-Abt. 266 with Stab, 1.-3. Schwere (heavy) Batterien (batteries) and 4.-5. Leichte (light) Batterien. Re-designated gem.Flak-Abt. 266 in July 1942. See below for other organizational changes.
Subordinated to:
Stab/Flak-Rgt. 95 (Flakgruppe Antwerpen) (Jul 42)
Stab/Flak-Rgt. 37 (Feb 43)
Stab/Flak-Rgt. 431 (Flakgruppe Lille) (Aug 43)
Stab/Flak-Rgt. 132 (Boulogne) (Oct 43 – Mar 44)
Stab/Flak-Rgt. 100 (Paris) (Apr-May 44)
Stab/Flak-Rgt. 59 (Paris) (May-Jun 44)
History:
18 Jun 40: Hamburg as Flakuntergruppe Südost with 2./266 at Hamburg-Kattwyk. (Loss Reports; Holm/ww2.dk)
2 Jul 41: 5./266 at Calais. (Loss Reports)
1942: Calais-Antwerpen area under Flakgruppe Antwerpen. (T-405)
Jan-Sep 43: Watten under Flakgruppe Lille. (T-405)
Jan-Mar 43: 2./266 re-designated 2./schw.Flak-Abt. 214 and immediately replaced with new assets. (Kannapin)
Mar-Aug 43: 4./266 renamed 6./266 and a new 4. Batterie formed from new assets. (Kannapin)
Oct 43: transferred to Boulogne and remained there until Mar 44. (Holm/ww2.dk)
Apr 44: trf from Boulogne to Versailles and then ordered to trf to Coëtquidan training ground near Rennes to train under Flak-Rgt. 431 (later Flak-Sturm-Rgt. 1). But Feld-Luftgaukdo. Westfrankreich refused to release the Abt. and the order was subsequently canceled. (Foreign Military Studies Manuscript P-156, Das III. Flakkorps – insbesondere Flaksturmregiment 1 – in der Zeit von Juni – September 1944, by Werner von Kistowski, Oberst a.D. und Wolfgang Pickert, General d.Flakart. a.D.
10 May 44: Paris area (Versailles?) with 5./266 detached at Caen-Carpiquet. (T-321 roll 65)
15 May 44: ordered to transfer 4 x 8.8 cm batteries from Paris to the Caen area under the guise of participating in Signals Exercise Oberon. (CX/MSS/R186/55)
30 May 44: 5./266 departed Caen-Carpiquet airfield. (BNA HW 5/492)
7 Jun 44: Abt. ordered reassigned to the control of 13. Flak-Div. for front employment. (ULTRA KV6822)
mid-Jun 44: both 5./266 and 6./266 were detached from the main body of the Abteilung and engaged in Normandy under Stab/Flak-Rgt. 30. (Holm/ww2.dk)
18 Jun 44: re-designated gem.Flak-Sturm-Abt. 266. (Kannapin)
24 Jun 44: re-designated I./Flak-Sturm-Rgt. 1. (Kannapin)
FpNs: Stab (L 23179); 1. Battr. (L 00984); 2. Battr. (L 04001, later 50240); 3. Battr. (L 20614); 4. Battr. (L 23806, later 55489); 5. Battr. (L 19052); 6.Battr. (L 23806).
Kommandeur:
Obstlt. Alexander Dini (21 Jan 40 - 18 Mar 40)
Obstlt. Karl Koch (? - 6 Jan 43) 4/42, 6/42
Maj. Erwin Jürgens (6 Jan 43 - ?) 4/43
Hptm. Gerhard Schmuck (? - Jun 44) 4/44

Cheers,

L.

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 28 Jun 2021 16:15

Merci beaucoup
Regards
Romain

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 28 Jun 2021 18:16

Thank you again for the information, on the other hand something that I do not understand, why the staff of this Abteilung appears to be present at Wn 126 at the end of May. A coordinator function would have been assigned to him for the benefit of the Flak units in the Caen sector? Do you have any information about the V zug./5.le./gemischte.Flak.Abteilung.153 located north of the prefecture (Wn 122/Beauregard) which arouses some questions to me. And about 3.955.E.Tr. (component of the Leicht.Eisenbahn.Transport.Schutz.Flak.Abt.955) then in place on one of the sorting centers at Caen station (Wn 123) ?

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Re: Complex west of Abbaye d'Ardenne June 1944

Post by Larry D. » 28 Jun 2021 22:28

Sorry, Romain, rarely do the surviving documents provide details down to the level of an individual Zug. Usually, Batterie-level is as far down as they go, the exception sometimes being on maps and sketches. For example, last year and the year before I went through (examined) all of the TsAMO 500/12476 Akten 1 to 255, about 17,000 pages of detailed operational material covering I. Flakkorps in Russia from March 1942 to September 1944. Only rarely did I see anything on individual Züge.

L.

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