D Day through German Eyes: How the Wehrmacht Lost France, by Jonathan Trigg

[Westphalia1812]

They are not about Normandy, though. I have long noticed that there was a dead angle about "Germans in Normandy", and Leleu's book seems to be the one that clears it.

Yes, there is only the book by Ose in German histiography. Most German studies, especially the ones done by the MGFA, dealt with the fighting on the Eastern front (Klink, Kehrig, Schwarz, Frieser etc...). Then there are others like Lieb who, however, focus more on the occupation.

[Aida1]

Warfare against opponents not in uniform that use ambushes ,bombings ,etc.. will many times lead to draconian measures particularly when there is no way you can supposedly win hearts and minds.

So it wasn't the German army's fault?

It is not about fault . It is about how an army will many times react when confronted with armed civilians and there is no chance of winning hearts and minds by being nice.

[Westphalia1812]

Warfare against opponents not in uniform that use ambushes ,bombings ,etc.. will many times lead to draconian measures particularly when there is no way you can supposedly win hearts and minds.

So it wasn't the German army's fault?

It is not about fault . It is about how an army will many times react when confronted with armed civilians and there is no chance of winning hearts and minds by being nice.

There were quite a number of German commanders (especially in the baltics, but also in France) who thought it would be more effective to win hearts and minds...but, unfortunately, the number of those who had different opinions was a lot bigger.

Partisanenkrieg in Jugoslawien 1941-1944 - Klaus Schmider

[Aida1]

They are not about Normandy, though. I have long noticed that there was a dead angle about "Germans in Normandy", and Leleu's book seems to be the one that clears it.

Yes, there is only the book by Ose in German histiography. Most German studies, especially the ones done by the MGFA, dealt with the fighting on the Eastern front (Klink, Kehrig, Schwarz, Frieser etc...). Then there are others like Lieb who, however, focus more on the occupation.

There are more than enough books by non german authors about the fighting in Normandy who also give the german perspective. And there are obviously the unit histories in german and the primary sources one can decide to read. And some interesting german testimonials in the US army foreign army studies collection.

[Aida1]

Warfare against opponents not in uniform that use ambushes ,bombings ,etc.. will many times lead to draconian measures particularly when there is no way you can supposedly win hearts and minds.

So it wasn't the German army's fault?

It is not about fault . It is about how an army will many times react when confronted with armed civilians and there is no chance of winning hearts and minds by being nice.

There were quite a number of German commanders (especially in the baltics, but also in France) who thought it would be more effective to win hearts and minds...but, unfortunately, the number of those who had different opinions was a lot bigger.

Being nice to the russians, ukranians would have worked better given that living under Stalin was no fun and many army commanders would certainly have favoured that approach.

[Mori]

Warfare against opponents not in uniform that use ambushes ,bombings ,etc.. will many times lead to draconian measures particularly when there is no way you can supposedly win hearts and minds.

So it wasn't the German army's fault?

It is not about fault . It is about how an army will many times react when confronted with armed civilians and there is no chance of winning hearts and minds by being nice.

Who to blame for failing to "win hearts and minds"?

[Aida1]

Warfare against opponents not in uniform that use ambushes ,bombings ,etc.. will many times lead to draconian measures particularly when there is no way you can supposedly win hearts and minds.

So it wasn't the German army's fault?

It is not about fault . It is about how an army will many times react when confronted with armed civilians and there is no chance of winning hearts and minds by being nice.

Who to blame for failing to "win hearts and minds"?

Would not be feasable in France for example, particularly when you are not winning anymore.

[Westphalia1812]

They are not about Normandy, though. I have long noticed that there was a dead angle about "Germans in Normandy", and Leleu's book seems to be the one that clears it.

Yes, there is only the book by Ose in German histiography. Most German studies, especially the ones done by the MGFA, dealt with the fighting on the Eastern front (Klink, Kehrig, Schwarz, Frieser etc...). Then there are others like Lieb who, however, focus more on the occupation.

There are more than enough books by non german authors about the fighting in Normandy who also give the german perspective. And there are obviously the unit histories in german and the primary sources one can decide to read. And some interesting german testimonials in the US army foreign army studies collection.

Well of course, Zetterling, Gullachsen etc. With the divisonal histories, one has to read more carefully and always check the sources.

One of the best tools for finding primary sources that came out in the last years was Invenio. The RH 10/... (Generalinspekteur der Panzertruppe) documents can be quite helpful for Normandy.

[Mori]

There are more than enough books by non german authors about the fighting in Normandy who also give the german perspective. And there are obviously the unit histories in german and the primary sources one can decide to read. And some interesting german testimonials in the US army foreign army studies collection.

Although you can certainly come up with a list of 20+ books on Germans in Normandy, they tend to just repeat what was written in the books before, adding a few minor facts / testimonies here and there, so that in the end it feels more like they are only 2 or 3 original books on which all subsequent are based.

So, no, I don't think there are "more than enough books" on Germans-in-Normandy. I think there are plenty of useless books and very few valuable ones.

[Mori]

Who to blame for failing to "win hearts and minds"?

Would not be feasable in France for example, particularly when you are not winning anymore.

Do you mean that systematicaly plundering and looting the economic resources from summer 1940 on, jailing all oponents, deporting Jews and others, didn't have any consequence on "hearts and minds" and that it was only when German was forced on the defensive that "nothing was possible anymore"?

[Michael Kenny]

You mention some authors with a very high reputation who have a far more complex way of expressing themselves than the simplistic way you describe their writings. And have done their research.

They can best be described as the school of how good the Germans were. Hastings is in that group. It is obvious why authors from that group are liked by you. Their standing is considerably lower today than it was when they first published.

[Aida1]

Who to blame for failing to "win hearts and minds"?

Would not be feasable in France for example, particularly when you are not winning anymore.

Do you mean that systematicaly plundering and looting the economic resources from summer 1940 on, jailing all oponents, deporting Jews and others, didn't have any consequence on "hearts and minds" and that it was only when German was forced on the defensive that "nothing was possible anymore"?

Germany certainly needed to economically exploit the occupied countries to support its war effort so winning hearts and minds would have been very difficult.

[Mori]

Germany certainly needed to economically exploit the occupied countries to support its war effort so winning hearts and minds would have been very difficult.

Germans "needed" to exploit conquests??? You might know a thing or two on armies but you definitively don't on economics and on ways to maintain peace after a military victory.

Besides, German plan was to conquer a large Lebensraum and make all conquered territories vassals to Germany, including by eliminating 10s of millions of people by starvation. This was ideology driven. Germans didn't even try to "win hearts and minds". They can only blame themselves.

[Westphalia1812]

Germany certainly needed to economically exploit the occupied countries to support its war effort so winning hearts and minds would have been very difficult.

You make it sound like they had to invade other countries...

[Westphalia1812]

Germans didn't even try to "win hearts and minds".

Some tried...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... yRU5GHExhi