SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by Ivan Ž. » 27 Jul 2018 22:38

Gespenster wrote:
07 Oct 2013 08:29
Hi, Ivan!
I watched "Die Deutsche Wochensachau" from which this passage of the SS-Division "Prinz Eugen". After these shots from Stubaf. shows the heavy artillery divisions. This is probably Stubaf. Felix Illner. Commander IV / SS-Geb.Art.Rgt. 7
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Gespenster
Somehow I missed this post :oops: Hello again, Gespenster, and sorry for the belated reply. The SS-Stubaf. is indeed Illner viewtopic.php?f=38&t=65835#p2147712

Cheers,
Ivan

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by gabrich1988 » 15 Oct 2018 17:26

I am reserching the capitulation of the SS Prinz Eugen. I need as much as possible information and photos of the capitullation and retreat in Slovenia. In the books and internet it said that they capitulated near Celje. I is that Zidani Most, Hrastnik? I am from Hrastnik and the old people say that they helped to collect their weapons. Why they didn t go to Zidani Most- Celje as the other retreating units of Germans, but to Zidani Most - Hrastnik direciton?

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by balkanguy44 » 07 Nov 2018 19:11

Hello,

Can someone identify this member of the SS-Division "Prinz Eugen"?
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BG44

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by Ivan Ž. » 07 Nov 2018 19:33

Hello, balkanguy44

It's a photo of the division's Ic Balthasar Kirchner that I scanned from Kumm's "7. SS-Geb.-Div. PE im Bild" and posted on AHF in April 2005 :)

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by balkanguy44 » 07 Nov 2018 20:06

Hello, Ivan

Thank you once again for your help!
Oh April 2005, about 13 years ago.. how time flies.
Cheers,
BG44

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by FlyingStukas » 20 Jan 2019 14:14

If you follow this division closely, its Belgian volunteer Kriegsberichter was Hugo Kemps. Here he is, depicted somewhere in the Bosnian countryside during Unternehmen Schwarz, June 1943.

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by Ivan Ž. » 20 Jan 2019 23:17

Hello, Filip

Yes that is Kemps, as identified here: http://bandenkampf.blogspot.com/2019/01/bk0411.html. But if you read my post carefully, you'll see that he was Dutch, and only born in Belgium. The photo you posted was taken in late 1943, long after Unternehmen "Schwarz".

(Please be more careful with future posts and identifications! ;) )

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Ivan

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by FlyingStukas » 21 Jan 2019 01:21

Hello Ivan,

I could swear the album said June 1943? Then I guess its a mix-match of photos from the division and the date isn't "set".

Edit: it also says January 1944, so I guess the date is approximate for this, but thank you for correcting me - it can't be during Sutjeska Operation.

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Filip
Last edited by FlyingStukas on 21 Jan 2019 01:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Filip

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by FlyingStukas » 21 Jan 2019 01:29

Here is Kemps again, during a shaving session. Quite an interesting observation that in these few pictures, he shies away from the camera, being a reporter himself :D Anyways, yes - Belgian born Dutcman, Hugo Kemps in either late 1943 or early 1944, quite possibly in Bosnia.
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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by Ivan Ž. » 21 Jan 2019 01:37

:D Don't worry, he didn't "shy-away" from the camera; it was his own camera that he gave to someone else to take a picture of him in the field shaving. He only tried to look natural (shying-away from the sun). Always bare in mind that a large number of the PK photos were staged.

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by FlyingStukas » 21 Jan 2019 01:44

Naturally, their purpose was exactly that. It gives a totally different and exciting approach to the picture when you know or assume, that its staged. (I always remember that photo also shot by Kemps or Kampe I can't remember, where a Muslim woman is seen giving water to a soldier of the Prinz Eugen. Don't have to be any expert on that, when an army passes through the village, its expected of the villagemen to give them something, regardless of their affiliation. My grandmother told me that in her village at least 4 different "uniforms" passed through during the war, and that a woman she knew would be the first on her toes to give the newcomers something to bite on :D)
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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by Ivan Ž. » 21 Jan 2019 01:47

Note that so-called "Kampe" is actually Kemps, misspelled.

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by FlyingStukas » 21 Jan 2019 01:48

Thank you, noted.

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Cheers,
Filip

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by FlyingStukas » 21 Jan 2019 01:55

Hello Ivan (again),

Bit of a different question, but still related with Prinz Eugen. Given that the men of the Prinz Eugen were largely Volksdeutcher farmers from Banat and other Yugoslav regions, how well did they actually speak Serbo-Croatian-Bosnian? The Partisan movie "Bitka na Sutjesci" quite humorously portrays many of them to understand our language, and I don't believe that is far from the truth. Is there any written record made by PE Division on how their understanding of the language helped them in the war?

Cheers, Filip
Cheers,
Filip

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Re: SS-Division "Prinz Eugen" photos

Post by Ivan Ž. » 21 Jan 2019 02:04

Hello, Filip
Ivan Ž. wrote:
21 Jan 2019 01:47
Note that so-called "Kampe" is actually Kemps, misspelled.
FlyingStukas wrote:
21 Jan 2019 01:48
Thank you, noted.
You're welcome, and here's the source of the confusion: this is the back of the NARA sheet with photos you posted; at the bottom, there was initially written: "Kemps"! However, the handwriting was so odd that someone misinterpreted it and re-noted above as "Kampe"! :D
Kemps51.jpg
FlyingStukas wrote:
21 Jan 2019 01:55
Bit of a different question, but still related with Prinz Eugen. Given that the men of the Prinz Eugen were largely Volksdeutcher farmers from Banat and other Yugoslav regions, how well did they actually speak Serbo-Croatian-Bosnian? The Partisan movie "Bitka na Sutjesci" quite humorously portrays many of them to understand our language, and I don't believe that is far from the truth. Is there any written record made by PE Division on how their understanding of the language helped them in the war?
Quoting Gaius, who quoted Tepavac (p. 40 of this topic)
G. Trifkovic wrote:
11 Nov 2013 03:25
Just found this and thought it would be an interesting share: Mirko Tepavac, political commissar of the 3rd Vojvodina Brigade and 36th Vojvodina Division of the Yugoslav People's Liberation Army (and Yugoslav foreign minister from 1969-1972) wrote the following on the "Prinz Eugen":
It was the only German unit which fought both during day and night (like us), carried weapons and supplies on its back or on horses (like us) and spoke Serbian-almost like us! Happily, they were late in realizing how advantageous all this could be [I presume this refers to the "Freie Jagd" concept devised by Phleps and used to a certain extent only during 1944- G.T.].

When we face each other without knowing whether friend or foe is on the opposite hill and when we are ready to either embrace or kill each other, we yell: who goes there? Instead of an answer we hear in Serbian: and who goes there? After several such exchanges, we decide to identify ourselves: here are the men of Vojvodina!, only to hear "Here are also men of Vojvodina!" in response.

Only when weapons start to roar it becomes apparent that we are two entirely different types of Vojvodina men [...] Only one of these two armies would return to Vojvodina and it wouldn't be them! Until then, both armies lost many of their members here, but they lost the war and Vojvodina as well.

Only and nothing but bad memories remained!
Mirko Tepavac, Moj Drugi svjetski rat i mir: o ratu posle rata-autobiografski zapisi (Zagreb: Razlog, 2012, pp. 147-8).
Cheers,
Ivan
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