High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

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alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 13 Aug 2022 09:16

Thanks again Oliver

I found some information on Alves with the Marder.

https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32395

I've found new info about SS Sturmmann Erich Alves, he was awarded an Iron Cross on the 08/01/1942, more than a year before fighting in the battle of Kharkov. By the 21/02/1943 he had already managed to destroy 13 soviet tanks and was "working" hard just southwest of Kharkov.

Alcius

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 13 Aug 2022 09:34

Others SS aces

Hans Mennel – SS-Pzrgt 2 – 24 kills
Willi Kaupa - SS-Pzrgt 2 – 18 kills
Alfons Stegmaier – SS-Stugabt 2 – 30 kills
Wolfgang Rohder – SS-Stugabt 2 – 23 kills

and two others with reservations :
Hans Siegel - SS-Pzrgt 12 – 27 kills
Johann Sailer – SS-Pzjgabt 9 – 31 kills

Alcius

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 13 Aug 2022 09:44

As usual, I forgot another one:

Willi Esslinger - SS-Pzjgabt 5 - 25 kills

Alcius

Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 15 Aug 2022 04:50

I wonder if there were any panzer aces from the Hermann Goering panzer army? Those aces from the Luftwaffe ground units must have been little known even today.
Edward L. Hsiao

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 15 Aug 2022 09:35

The only HG panzer axes that I know of are, Sandrock, Hartelt, and I don't know if it has already been inserted - Feldwebel Fritz Bowitz - GCG for 13 kills.

I can point out 2 axes of the LW Sturmartillerie:
Stug.Bttr./Lw.Feld-Div. 15 [= 4. (Stug) /Pz.Jg.Abt.15]
Leutnant Andreas von Rakowitsch - GCG / KC for 30 kills
Unteroffizier Willi Masemann - KC for 18 kills

Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 15 Aug 2022 11:49

alcius wrote:
13 Aug 2022 09:16
I found some information on Alves with the Marder.
https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32395
Hi Alcius,

well, that of course is quite reasonable indeed, I'm still not sure if this number means his kills as a gun commander, but it's probable of course.

As for the other men posted by you, I have to look for them this evening.

Oliver

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 15 Aug 2022 18:22

alcius wrote:
13 Aug 2022 09:34
Johann Sailer – SS-Pzjgabt 9 – 31 kills
Hello Alcius,

o.k., this guy ..., his Ritterkreuz is questionable, could be, but not sure. But anyway, that's not the question here. Sailer's company is said to be highly successful from the Normandy to Hungary (208 tanks plus other equipment), and with his former "life" with the SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 2 he well could have accounted for 31 tank kills. But do you have a source for that number?

Oliver
Last edited by Gastolli on 15 Aug 2022 18:47, edited 1 time in total.

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 15 Aug 2022 18:24

alcius wrote:
13 Aug 2022 09:34
Hans Siegel - SS-Pzrgt 12 – 27 kills
Hi Alcius,

it's said that he have 11 tank kills up until wounded on 13.3.1943 at Charkow while with 3./SS-Stug.Abt. 1, another 7 tank kills on 11.6.1944 and another 11 tanks on 27./28.6.1944, again heavily wounded. But continued to serve 1945 in Hungary.

So, easily trustable number I would say.

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 15 Aug 2022 18:33

alcius wrote:
15 Aug 2022 09:35
The only HG panzer axes that I know of are, Sandrock, ...
I wonder, if any one ever has seen an official number for Hans Sandrock? Most of his kills should have been scored while with the Panzers in North Africa, not so while acting as a Abteilungs-Kommandeur. I would estimate his score at about 30, but ..., never have seen anything apart from obscure numbers in the net ...

Oliver

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 15 Aug 2022 18:47

alcius wrote:
15 Aug 2022 09:35
I can point out 2 axes of the LW Sturmartillerie:
Stug.Bttr./Lw.Feld-Div. 15 [= 4. (Stug) /Pz.Jg.Abt.15]
Leutnant Andreas von Rakowitsch - GCG / KC for 30 kills
Unteroffizier Willi Masemann - KC for 18 kills
Hi Alcius,

this is pretty cool. I always have asked myself "what the h..." was the reason for him to get the DKiG (with his Kompaniechef Oblt. Beutter getting the DKiG the same day) and than the RK later on while serving with Sturmgeschütze!

And Masemann ...

Do you have the sources for those two guys, please?

Highly interested ... :-)

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 16 Aug 2022 09:54

Hello Oliver

For Sailer and Siegel, I had written with reservation, because it is a French,no longer active, site I don't know how reliable - http://www.193945.net/perso.htm

This is the text per Sailer

Fils de boucher, il débuta sa carrière militaire à 19 ans en 1940 en s'engageant dans la SS Il servit dans les Balkans et au front russe. Comme beaucoup de WaffenSS prometteurs, il séjourna à Tolz pour ensuite retourner au front russe en 1943. Il servait dans l'Abteilung 9 de la division Hohenstaufen. Transféré avec son unité en Normandie, et dans la poche de Falaise ou son unité détruisit 53 Shermans. Il a pu s'échapper avec le reste de son unité pour se poster à Arnhem juste à temps pour l'assaut angloUS du 15 Septembre. Durant la bataille des Ardennes, son unité reconstituée à 75%, elle combattit mais merdit tous ses canons autopropulsés. En 1945, il retourne sur le front russe ou il se battit en Hongrie, et termina la guerre en se bagarrant avec des pelotons blindés US. Son unité détruisit 600 chars et 200 camions. Son score personnel fut de 31 chars et 13 camions détruits. Il se mérita la Croix de Chevalier.

This for Siegel:

L'un des quelques tankistes de la bataille de Normandie. Il fut appelé dans l'armée en 1935 et fit son service militaire jusqu'en mai 1938. En septembre 38, il s'enrôle dans la WaffenSS et accepté dans la Liebestandarte. Il sert pendant la campagne de Pologne, fit son stage à Tolz, et shippé sur Kharkov en 1943. La formation de la 12 PzSS Hitlerjungen lui permis d'exercer son expérience d'instructeur de blindés. Il se battit autour de Caen. Malgré la compétence professionnelle de ses tankistes, il ne met rien à faire pour protéger ses colonnes des avions alliés. Son char fut touché par air, lui-même brûlé et évacué en Allemagne. Il a 27 chars à son actif. Il combattit en Hongrie et fut décoré de la Croix de Chevalier.


Alcius

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 16 Aug 2022 09:57

For Sandrock, there is a post on this site, where he himself names his PZ.III, with 13 kill rings
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=227061&p=2063690&h ... k#p2063690

Alcius

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 16 Aug 2022 10:05

Per Rakowitsch:
Völkischer Beobachter 19. Juli 1944
https://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno ... nno-search

Per Masemann;
masemann.png
I also found this Newspapers for Masemann, where it is said that he destroyed 4 tanks, before being seriously injured.
(At least so I understand from the German)
Therefore it should have a minimum of 22 kills

https://zeitpunkt.nrw/ulbbn/periodical/zoom/1268103?


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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 16 Aug 2022 18:23

alcius wrote:
16 Aug 2022 09:54
For Sailer and Siegel, I had written with reservation, ...
This is the text per Sailer ..
Hi Alcius,

o.k., this sounds like a "Eigenangabe" again, at least just before we see a original document from wartime. But o.k., 31 tank kills still is possible, no question. And, if he got the Ritterkreuz or not, is not my concern to be true :-)

The German text from the Book "Ritterkreuzträger der Waffen-SS (Krätschmer)" reads more like this:

His 3./SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 9 destroyed 53 tanks AND vehicles during the breakthrough at Falaise on 19.8.1944.
His 3./SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 9 destroyed a total of 208 tanks, about 400 vehicles and more than 200 guns.

Here, no mention of his personal score of 31 tanks.

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 16 Aug 2022 18:27

alcius wrote:
16 Aug 2022 09:54
For Sailer and Siegel, I had written with reservation, ...
This for Siegel: ...
Puh, a very "faint" text I would say. But see my post above on Siegel's tank kills. He probably scored more than that ...

Oliver

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