High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 09 Aug 2022 22:46

alcius wrote:
09 Aug 2022 10:32
But on Tracesofwar, he gave me Altmann who died September 20th, 1942
:D

The Karl Altmann who died on 20.9.1942 was with 10./Gren.Rgt. (mot) 119, it's not the Gefreiter from Pz.Jg.Abt. 160!

See here (don't know if you can see it, if not registered):
https://www.fold3.com/image/692391656?t ... tmann,karl

The Karl Altmann in question was born, according to his DKiG card, on 5.7.1909 at Frauendorf, Kreis Gostingen, Bezirk Posen. And, there's no entry for such a man on the Volksbund side or within the Fold3 records.

Moreso, survivors from 60. Inf.Div. (mot) in most cased where used to build some Feldherrnhalle units, so it's absolutely fitting that the Jagdpanther gunner from 1945 was the DKiG holder from 1942! A pak gunner with more than 20 tank kills of course has to expect a higher award ...

Nice PK-Bericht, also mentioning the name of the Jagdpanther commander.

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 10 Aug 2022 09:16

Thanks, as usual, for the information.

I had also found the article from the Jagdpanther company, but I had not associated it with the SPzjgabt 563.

If you are interested in the following link:
https://parabellum-militaria.com/panzer ... -kaminski/
you can find Kaminski's diary for 1945 in Russian.

Alcius

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 10 Aug 2022 09:22

As for Job, I have this information.

Eduard Job has been awarded both classes of the Iron Cross while serving in PanzerjägerAbteilung 13 of the 13. Panzer-Division

When Schiefbahn was taken back on 1.3.1945, Uffz. Eduard Job 3./Pz. Jäg.Lehr-Abt. Destroy 5 enemy tanks in heavy night combat. Job has now shot down 38 enemy tanks as a gunner.

On March 3rd 1945 Uffz.Eduard Job 3./Pz. Jäg.Lehr-Abt. Destroy 8 enemy tanks in heavy night combat


Alcius

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 10 Aug 2022 09:35

Hello Oliver

Since you mentioned Schlang

Feldwebel Wilhelm Schlang - 2./Pz.Jg.Abt. z.b.V. 2, RK for destroying 15 enemy tanks in 20 minutes

https://zeitpunkt.nrw/ulbms/periodical/zoom/810247

Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 10 Aug 2022 18:38

alcius wrote:
10 Aug 2022 09:22
Eduard Job has been awarded both classes of the Iron Cross while serving in PanzerjägerAbteilung 13 of the 13. Panzer-Division
Hi Alcius,

well ..., yes, the EK 2 was with 1./Pz.Jg.Abt. 13 as a Gefreiter on 20.10.1941, but the EK 1 he just got on 23.12.1944 as a Obergefreiter with 3./Pz.Jg.-Lehr-Abt. 130, the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold as a Unteroffizier in March 1945.

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 10 Aug 2022 18:41

alcius wrote:
10 Aug 2022 09:16
I had also found the article from the Jagdpanther company, but I had not associated it with the SPzjgabt 563.
I just associated this article with Bleyer as his name was mentioned at the end, and it's a very unusual name. Date and PK-Berichter also making sure, that this is P 563. And, of course, the details given about this successful company.

Wellner, just to mention that, was the Kompanieführer Lt.d.R. Hermann Wellner ...

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 10 Aug 2022 18:55

alcius wrote:
10 Aug 2022 09:16
If you are interested in the following link:
https://parabellum-militaria.com/panzer ... -kaminski/
you can find Kaminski's diary for 1945 in Russian.
Hi Alcius, very well!

Deepl will help alot, even if it's Czech language, not Russian language :-)

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 11 Aug 2022 10:08

Thanks Oliver

Added Waffen-SS aces:

Erich Alves - SS-Pzjgabt 2 + 31 kills
Heinz Tensfeld - SS-SPzrgt 2 - +20 kills
Berndt Lubich von Milovan - Stug/Pzjgabt 3 - 36 kills
Walter Gruber - SS_Stug/Pzjgabt 3 - 26 kills
Gerhard Fischer - SS-Pzjgabt 5 - +14 kills
Karl Jauss - SS-Pzrgt 5 - 26 kills
Max Schachner - SS-Pzjgabt 8 - 12 kills
Gustav Wendrinsky - SS-Pzjgabt 8 - 47 kills
Richard Rudolf - SS-Pzjgabt 12 - 20 kills

another ace could be Ustuf Helmut Unterer - SS-Pzabt 4 - ???
Die drei Sturmgeschütze des SS-Untersturmführers Unterer wiesen den Angriff von 23 feindlichen Panzern zurück und vernichteten 15 davon.
I do not know the number of tanks destroyed by Unterer, probably more than five

Alcius

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 11 Aug 2022 10:12

Sorry for my mistake:

Berndt Lubich von Milovan - Stug/Pzjgabt 3 - 46 panzerkills not 36

Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 11 Aug 2022 19:14

alcius wrote:
11 Aug 2022 10:08
Added Waffen-SS aces:
Hello Alcius,

Waffen-SS is not my main point of research (as literally the whole world is interested in Waffen-SS, so ..., leave the field for others), but of course I also make my notes on these guys.

Alves: I just know of about 17 tank kills while a gunner up to the end of 1941, but he contiued to serve. So, do you have a specific source for 31 kills? I also don't know if he still served as a gunner or a gun commander later on with SS-Stu.Gesch.Abt. 2.

Fischer, Gerhard: Hm, I read the recommendation for him as having 13 kills as a gunner plus 14 kills (at least) as a gun commander.

Jauss: Ah, the recommendation given within Scherzer's book doesn't include any particular tank kills, apart from one action with 3 tank kills by Jauss on 8.7.1944. Have you found a newspaper clipping?

Wendrinsky: Wow, this is interesting. 47 tanks claimed? As he was with 1. Kompanie SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 8 he "just" was equipped with towed Pak and THAT would make him one of the most successful men with towed Pak? Do you have a source for him? I just know his Budapest action with 3 tanks killed by his Pak plus 2 tanks in close combat ...

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 12 Aug 2022 09:58

Hello Oliver

for Alves:
Unterscharfuher Geschutzfuhrer Marder III “33”– . By the 21/02/1942 to 2/9/42 he destroyed 14 soviet tanks

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 12 Aug 2022 10:00

Attachements
alves marder 33.jpg
alves.png
alves marder.jpg
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alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 12 Aug 2022 10:06

For Jauss:
https://www.wolfganghistorica.com/produ ... king-dkig/

For Wendrisky:
http://www.militaria.cz/cz/clanky/valky ... insky.html
Datum: 04. 08. 2009 12:25:04 Autor: Pavel Mi...
Předmět: Slováku ako repa pre všetkých diskutujúcich

Thanks for adding Fischer, I found the Knight's Cross recommendation in Tracesofwar

Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 12 Aug 2022 18:32

alcius wrote:
12 Aug 2022 09:58
Unterscharfuher Geschutzfuhrer Marder III “33”– . By the 21/02/1942 to 2/9/42 he destroyed 14 soviet tanks
Hello Alcius,

hm ..., I'm not sure with the text on the backside of the photograph. The number given for Alves is 17, not 14 "... schoß in Rußland 17 Panzer ab ...", see the number 4 written for the dates 2.9.42 and 8.9.42, the number in question here is a 7 = 17.

And 17, that's exactly the number he accounted for before his Ritterkreuz, as a gunner:
01.07.41 = 3 Panzer
25.07.41 = 2 BT, 6 T26
11.08.41 = 1 Panzer
14.08.41 = 4 Panzer
19.10.41 = 1 T34

The Marder in the pic and the drawing shows about 20 kill rings or so, as far as I can make it out? The question for me is: what has the fallen Oscha. E. Klein to do with that? As a Oscha. he for sure was a Geschützführer who also might have accounted for some kills before his death in 1941. More so ..., I think (but I'm not sure, I'm no Waffen-SS expert), that these Marders where delivered to "Das Reich" just in the summer of 1942, I'm not sure if they ever see action in Russia before the company was in France (maybe, they got the Marders just there)???

The Bio for Alves is very uncertain, even Veit Scherzer in his books about the high awardees didn't have his dates for EK2 and EK1 and his service life after the Ritterkreuz. It could be (just a guess) that Erich Alves after the Ritterkreuz was wounded at some point and just returned to 3. Kompanie in France to take over Marder "33".

I would like to leave him with 17 kills as a gunner plus a unknown number of kills with a Marder (in 1942?) in 1943, plus with a Sturmgeschütz later on ...

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 13 Aug 2022 00:39

alcius wrote:
12 Aug 2022 10:06
For Jauss:
...
For Wendrisky:
...
Thanks for adding this.

As for Jauss I call it "Eigenangabe", something like "own claim" or "own statement". In this case, as he didn't claim 150 tank kills, I would like to belive him :-)

Oliver

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