High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

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alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 28 Jul 2022 10:07

For Wilhelm Wolf:
Zeitung 17 August 1943
wolf.png
In this site;
https://panzernachrichten.blogspot.com/ ... ld-fur.htm
you can find the the proposal to award the German Cross in Gold, for over 40 kills

alcius
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alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 28 Jul 2022 10:17

For Conrad Gaida in this site :
https://www.adlermilitaria.com/product/ ... nzer-days/

you can find the Soldbuch in which the name is Conrad with the C and the fighting days 49

Hello Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 28 Jul 2022 18:39

Hello Alcius,

thanks for these additional information. In nearly total absence of the original recommendations for higher awards these newspaper clippings are very important to find at least some details as of why these men got the RK or DKiG etc. ...

Please note:
Hptm. Zobel was recommended for 32 tank kills of his Abteilung during that short time period, it's not his personal score!

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 28 Jul 2022 19:07

Hallo Alcius,

wow, nice Soldbuch of Konrad Gaida, indeed!

I remain with Konrad (K) instead of Conrad as all papers I have seen in the Archive (EK-list, proposal for EBSp) say Konrad, including his signature under the portrait pic of the Soldbuch. But well, more important are the facts of course.

You can see that he was a very young tank commander, born in 1925. He was not even 20 years of age at the armistice!

He served as a Funker and Ladeschütze until mid May 1944, than was a Richtschütze and just from August 1944 onwards he was used as a tank commander.

He didn't get the Mention in the Ehrenblatt, he was recommended, yes, but he didn't get it. A listing in the Bundesarchiv has the note "nein" behind his running Number 6029.

Anyway, an interesting person for sure!

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 29 Jul 2022 09:06

Thanks for the information and corrections.
I would like to know where you found the information on Werner Wolf and his 68 kills.
If on some newspapers or other

hello, Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 29 Jul 2022 18:15

alcius wrote:
29 Jul 2022 09:06
... where you found the information on Werner Wolf and his 68 kills.
Hello Alcius,

I asked me the same question :D

It's information from back in time when I started to made notes for myself. Meanwhile, also using archival sources etc., I did remarks as of the sources like newspapers or so.

One of my notes with regard to Walter Wolf (not Werner W.):
Ritterkreuz: during a attack north-east of Warschau his Zug shot 23 tanks, of whom he had 11 tank kills himself, including his 68th tank kill.

But I will have a look, quite some possibilities where I had found that information of course ...

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 30 Jul 2022 10:35

Thanks for the info Oliver.

I add some Panzerabteilung aces:
Karl Kosar - Pzabt. 7 - KC for 16 kills in 3 days
Heinrich Mahlstedt - Pzabt 8 - 26 kills
Hans Walz - Pzabt 103 - 60 kills
Hans-Joachim Nitsch - Pzabt 118 - 32 kils
Max Henke - Pzabt 118 - 28 kills
Heinz Struck - Pzabt. 129 - 16 kills

Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 31 Jul 2022 10:01

Hello Alcius,

ah, thanks for this additional information. As usual, I have some questions:

Karl Kosar: the chronicle of Pz.Abt. 7 claims these 16 tank kills on 15. Jan. 1944 alone, with 32 tanks shot by his 3 Sturmgeschütze.

Heinrich Mahlstedt: I just have him 20 tanks destroyed within 14 days in the summer of 1944, west of Baranow. His total of course could easily be 26 tanks.

Hans Walz: I until now have no particular claims for this man, but he served the whole war, being a Leutnant in 1945. You have a newspaper clipping? 60 tank kills would make him one of the higher ranking tank aces.

Max Henke: also interesting as his Ritterkreuztat most probably was within the 349. VGD area in Oct. 1944. Is it a newpaper claim? Another interesting "alter Hase", born in 1909. He was a Oberfeldwebel with 3./Pz.Rgt. 7 in 1941.

Heinz Struck: his "Beurteilung" from 17.12.1942 within the personal file claimes him to have destroyed 11 tanks (plus one in close combat) within the last 3 months, i.e. that's AFTER he got the DKiG in Sept. 1942. Also, he later served as a Leutnant with Panther-Abteilung 2106, but went missing after three days of combat. If these 16 tank kills are claimed for the DKiG award, so his total at least would be 27 ...

Would like to see the newspapers for those men of course.

Oliver


PS: I'm still searching for the claim for Ofw. Wolf, damn ...

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 31 Jul 2022 11:01

Hello, Oliver as usual here are the newspaper clippings, some I don't remember where I found them

Karl Kosar
kosar.png
Heinrich Mahlstedt
mahlstedt.png
Hans Walz
Rurfront 1944/45: - Pag. 310
3. Infanterie-Division, 3. Infanterie-Division (mot.), 3. Panzergrenadier-Division Pasg. 368
Bei diesen Abwehrkämpfen schießt Lt. Walz , der mit 58 Panzern die höchste Abschuszahl buchen kann , zwei weitere Sherman ab

Max Henke
henke.png
Heinz Struck
struck.png
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Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 31 Jul 2022 23:05

Hello Alcius,

thank you for these additions!

This newspaper report here may have dealt with Ofw. Wolf:
https://zeitpunkt.nrw/ulbms/periodical/ ... kommandant

The Kommandant is not named, but the mainfränkische Panzerdivision for sure is 4. Pz.Div. and you have no other Fw.-Dienstgrad than Wolf who got the Ritterkreuz. Kunzmann from 6. Kompanie already has died in early August.

What do you think?

Oliver


PS: it's not the source I had for the 68 tank kills for Ofw. Wolf of course.

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 01 Aug 2022 09:18

Hello, Oliver

I had found it too, but I had linked it to Kunzmann.
You wrote me that in one fight he had destroyed 11 tanks bringing his total to 68 kills.
This one is 67, probably not Wolf.
But I don't know

Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 01 Aug 2022 22:56

Hm,

of course, I'm also not sure as of the identity of this "Feldwebel". The PK-Bericht claimes that the reporter spoke with that Feldwebel, but Kunzmann fell amidst the heavy fighting around Warschau in early August. And he, like Wolf, was a Oberfeldwebel. But, German language, while the reporter wrote "Feldwebel" he could have meant a Oberfeldwebel also, a little bit tricky.

Another possibilty: the Feldwebel from this PK-Bericht is not a Ritterkreuzträger, but one of the Feldwebel which got the DKiG, like Arnulf Köhler from 1. (Panther) company, DKiG on 19.10.1944.

Nothing for sure, sadly ...

If Wolf is meant: it could well have been after his 11 tank kills, bringing his total to 67 at the time of the interview, adding another one shortly after, so that the RK-recommendation gave the total as 68 tank kills.

???

Oliver

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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 01 Aug 2022 23:09

Hi Alcius,

I expect the newspaper clipping dealing with St.Fw. Max Henke from the End of 1944, after he got the RK.

The work from Gerhard Turner "Der Untergang meines Heimatkreises Schloßberg/Ostpreußen" (1. Inf.Div.) claims for the actions on 13.01.1945:
Da der Russe ja aber erst am Anfang seiner Offensive stand, sahen
unsere Verteidiger mit großer Sorge den nächsten Kampftagen ent-
gegen. Zwar hatten sie 25 von den 42 auf Blumenfeld angreifenden
Panzern und Sturmgeschützen abgeschossen, darunter der Stabs-
feldwebel Henke mit seinem Sturmgeschütz von 9 angreifenden T 34
allein 6, aber man wußte, daß der Russe seine großen operativen
Panzerverbände noch gar nicht eingesetzt hatte.


Well, as the 28 tank kills reported by the newspaper where for the one week period in October 1944 alone, as Max Henke got the EK1 in early May 1944, as he already served as a Oberfeldwebel with Pz.Rgt. 7 at the start of Barbarossa, and as he survived the war, I would expect the tank kills for Max Henke far beyond 40 ...

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 02 Aug 2022 09:56

Thanks Oliver, for the information.
Now I ask another question concerning another Wolf.
Stabsfeldwebel Wilhelm Wolf - Zugführer 2./Panzer-Abteilung 103.
In 3. Infanterie-Division, 3. Infanterie-Division (mot.), 3. Panzergrenadier-Division - Pag. 188 is written: from 25 to 27 July 1942 the Stabsfeldwebel Wolf with his zug destroyed 52 enemy tanks
wolf wilhelm.png
While in wwii.germandocsinrussia.org there are 44 enemy tanks.
wolf wilhelm2.png
I don't know if 44 are from Wolf personally.

thanks for any information
Alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 02 Aug 2022 19:25

Hello Alcius,

I don't have other information as these two (conflicting) reports. I would trust the wartime report more than the books written after the war. One possibilty: the 44 tanks could have been the score for 25.7.1942, the main day of battle, and the 52 tanks could have been the score for the mentioned three day period.

Even the magnificent book from Jason Mark "Panzerkrieg, Vol. 1", has no additional information, so you will not find anything else, apart from a yet unknown newspaper or a yet undiscovered file in the archives :-(

Shortly after, on July 28th, Wolf's Panzer III was shot and he went missing, severly wounded, while being brought to the Armee-Feldlazarett.

He got his EK 1 as a Stabsfeldwebel already with 2./Pz.Rgt. 18 in August 1941, b.t.w. ...

I would tend to credit him with a estimated 20 tank kills (low number), until further information came up!?

Oliver

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