The Combat Performance of the Fallschirmjäger

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
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Fallschirmjäger
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THE BEST TO ME.

Post by Fallschirmjäger » 06 Oct 2005 02:36

As the name you see there my favourite soldiers of all time they where very tough(i actually like them more realy as ground troops more than there airborne missions,wouldnt catch me doing that parachuting too much over enemy lines,like crete/suicide in ways).Favourite operations all over russian/eastern front 41-45,tunisia 42-43,italy 43-45,and western front 44-45.As for crete they where outnumbered on the ground,heaps of uncounted greek troops im shure and dont forget them locals we all know that actually killed quiet a number of them as they came down.
But one thing about crete it was a graveyard but it was not there fault,numbers in early stages against them,and they knew they where coming too through captured enigma stuff i think it is,but i think any other units might have been wiped out or surrendered or retreated?but the fallschirmjaeger fought on for them,there mates and country,and kurt students leadership was excellant. 8)

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Imad
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Post by Imad » 06 Oct 2005 12:52

I think it would be a mistake to brand all Fallschirmjaeger as uniformly excellent. We have to remember that the standard of the recruits in many units declined through the War. Many did not even make a single parachute drop. The paratroopers that participated in the Ardennes in '44 for example were a sorry lot. But that should not take away from the performance of superb units like 1st Parachute Div and the Ramcke Brigade.
Imad

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LWD
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Post by LWD » 06 Oct 2005 22:30

toshi roshi wrote:The 1st Fallschirmjäger Division was the finest division in the entire German Army during world war 2, probably even the finest in the world(cause obviously the allied didnt have divisions that could compare with the german ones) they ...
Pretty bold series of statements. How was the performance of say the US 101 Airborne any worse than that of the1st Fallschimjagers?

As for allied divisions comparing to German ones. If I were an Army or Corp commander after about mid 1942 my first choice in just about any rolll would be one of the top US or Commonwealth Divisions of the appropriate type. IF you would choose different why?

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Post by LWD » 06 Oct 2005 22:31

leandros wrote:...
Is it really correct that the Aussies and Greeeks were outnumbered at Crete? ...
My impression is that he was talking about a particular battle or area and not the whole campaign.

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Fallschirmjäger
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YES THEY WHERE.

Post by Fallschirmjäger » 06 Oct 2005 22:33

Imad yea for shure near the later years not much para jumping or trained more elite infantry most of the original guys had died in crete and then russia,itlay,normandy etc.. they still trained them in para jumping a lot of them ,but maybe others ,lots of them where never,being at front or in action most of time,and no need to do it,as not may jumps planed.Yes the bulge jump didnt go good,cause a lot of confusion is what mostly did to the allies.
And what the lacked in training a lot of these young guys,lots from surplus luftwaffe jobs,groundcrew,flak etc..was the name of the fallschirmjaeger and living up to there fighting standards of there founders,which thet did time and time again on all fronts in WW2,dam tough soldiers,yes ramckes brigade was a excellant unit as was FGR 6,and many other units,divisons in the fallschirmjaeger where. 8)

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Post by fredleander » 08 Oct 2005 18:46

LWD wrote:
leandros wrote:...
Is it really correct that the Aussies and Greeeks were outnumbered at Crete? ...
My impression is that he was talking about a particular battle or area and not the whole campaign.
To my knowledge the Germans were outnumbered at all the landing points. That is why they got such a beating in the first place. If the paras hadn't been reinforced by the air and sea-transported German units they wouldn't have got anywhere. Still, in the end, the German forces were never larger than the Allied's (my information).

Churchill puts forth an interesting theory in his memoirs. The Germans were so far out in their enemy force estimate (approx. 5.000 soldiers on Crete) that it has been speculated that German intelligence actually withheld the real figures - for the operation to miscarry. The person responsible for intelligence (I do not remember his name) later participated in the conspiration against Hitler.

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Post by Andreas » 08 Oct 2005 19:32

Erich wrote:Funny, I've never heard of the Fallschirmjäger having a poor performance during the last war years. Look at Italy and Holland during 1945.....stout resistance I would say. Possibly problems with the LW-Feld-Divisions as they were many times weak in heavy weapons...

E
ISTR that 9. FJD folded very quickly on the Oderfront. As for other units that were hastily assembled out of lord knows what kind of units (8, 10, 11 FJD) it is probably difficult to get much information on them, since they were in existence for a short time only, and the paperwork may have been destroyed in the chaos of those days.

The great-uncle (I think) of a friend of mine was in a transport squadron, and when they came back from France without planes in 1944 he was given the choice to volunteer for the Waffen-SS or the paras. Never got any infantry or para training. Only reason he joined the paras was that he thought he had a slightly better chance to survive than with the Waffen-SS.

All the best

Andreas

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Imad
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Post by Imad » 08 Oct 2005 19:42

LWD wrote:
toshi roshi wrote:The 1st Fallschirmjäger-Division was the finest division in the entire German Army during world war 2, probably even the finest in the world(cause obviously the allied didnt have divisions that could compare with the german ones) they ...
Pretty bold series of statements. How was the performance of say the US 101 Airborne any worse than that of the1st Fallschimjagers?

As for allied divisions comparing to German ones. If I were an Army or Corp commander after about mid 1942 my first choice in just about any rolll would be one of the top US or Commonwealth Divisions of the appropriate type. IF you would choose different why?
The US 101st Airborne was a superb fighting unit. It would be hard to draw a comparison with the 1st Para Div Fallschirmjaeger because the two divisions were not facing similar situations and circumstances. Comparisons like these are pointless and purely speculative.
Imad

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Robb
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Post by Robb » 09 Oct 2005 13:41

The Germans were outnumbered on Crete during the initial stages of the battle but once they were able to capture the airfield at Maleme, which they were able to do on 20 May 1941 the day of the attack, the Germans were then able to obtain the necessary reinforcements to win the battle. They were able to capture the airfiels as the New Zealand troops pulled back from the vital ridge which commanded Maleme airfield from the south. This decision has never been explained but the commander Puttick claimed their ammunition was exhausted. Reinforcements were landed by Ju-52s from then on as the forces sent by sea had sufferred quite severe losses at the hands of the Royal Navy.
"Battle of the Wine Dark Sea" The Aegean campaign 1940 - 1945 by Lew Lind Page 53 Kangaroo Press first published 1994.

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LWD
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Post by LWD » 09 Oct 2005 13:59

LWD wrote:
toshi roshi wrote:The 1st Fallschirmjäger-Division was the finest division in the entire German Army during world war 2, probably even the finest in the world(cause obviously the allied didnt have divisions that could compare with the german ones) they ...
Pretty bold series of statements. How was the performance of say the US 101 Airborne any worse than that of the1st Fallschimjagers?
...
imad wrote: The US 101st Airborne was a superb fighting unit. It would be hard to draw a comparison with the 1st Para Div Fallschirmjaeger because the two divisions were not facing similar situations and circumstances. Comparisons like these are pointless and purely speculative.
Imad
Agreed, but I was curious to see if toshi had any rational at all for his pronouncement.

edited because my final line wasn't showing for some reason.
edited again to put the correct name in.
Last edited by LWD on 12 Oct 2005 00:09, edited 3 times in total.

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fredleander
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Post by fredleander » 09 Oct 2005 14:28

Robb wrote:The Germans were outnumbered on Crete during the initial stages of the battle but once they were able to capture the airfield at Maleme, which they were able to do on 20 May 1941 the day of the attack, the Germans were then able to obtain the necessary reinforcements to win the battle.
Certainly, but to my knowledge they never attained superiority in pure manpower.

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Imad
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Post by Imad » 11 Oct 2005 17:06

LWD wrote:
LWD wrote:
toshi roshi wrote:The 1st Fallschirmjäger-Division was the finest division in the entire German Army during world war 2, probably even the finest in the world(cause obviously the allied didnt have divisions that could compare with the german ones) they ...
Pretty bold series of statements. How was the performance of say the US 101 Airborne any worse than that of the1st Fallschimjagers?
...
imad wrote: The US 101st Airborne was a superb fighting unit. It would be hard to draw a comparison with the 1st Para Div Fallschirmjaeger because the two divisions were not facing similar situations and circumstances. Comparisons like these are pointless and purely speculative.
Imad
Agreed, but I was curious to see if imad had any rational at all for his pronouncement.

edited because my final line wasn't showing for some reason.
You mean toshi, right?
Imad

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LWD
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Post by LWD » 12 Oct 2005 00:05

LWD wrote:...
Agreed, but I was curious to see if toshi had any rational at all for his pronouncement.

edited because my final line wasn't showing for some reason.
imad wrote: You mean toshi, right?
Imad

Yes. Sorry should have been toshi. Got my quoteing mixed up.[/code]

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LWD
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Post by LWD » 12 Oct 2005 00:07

LWD wrote:...
Agreed, but I was curious to see if toshi had any rational at all for his pronouncement.

edited because my final line wasn't showing for some reason.
imad wrote: You mean toshi, right?
Imad

Yes. Sorry should have been toshi. Got my quoteing mixed up. I'll fix it right now. Thanks for the correction.

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Post by Fallschirmjäger » 12 Oct 2005 03:19

ISTR that 9. FJD folded very quickly on the Oderfront. As for other units that were hastily assembled out of lord knows what kind of units (8, 10, 11 FJD) it is probably difficult to get much information on them, since they were in existence for a short time only, and the paperwork may have been destroyed in the chaos of those days.

The great-uncle (I think) of a friend of mine was in a transport squadron, and when they came back from France without planes in 1944 he was given the choice to volunteer for the Waffen-SS or the paras. Never got any infantry or para training. Only reason he joined the paras was that he thought he had a slightly better chance to survive than with the Waffen SS.

All the best

Andreas[/quote]
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The 9th div put up a fight but against a heavy artillery barrage(the heaviest of WW2 in any theatre of operations) when they where regrouping ,whole battalions where wiped out.The divison pulled back to a defensive line further back and under the full massed force of russian tanks they fragmented the 26th regt driven north ended up fighting anglo-amercian forces in north germany,the 25th regt diven into berlin where it would fight to the end or surrender its remants,some battalions from the 25th regt fought in the so called fortress breslau too,the 27th regt lost a battalion in the first arty barrage after that?maybe some to berlin,south,north who knows,book dosent say.
Last edited by Fallschirmjäger on 22 Jun 2006 04:50, edited 2 times in total.

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