Kampfgruppe v. Courbière, Odessa 1941

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
CNE503
Member
Posts: 2387
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 12:01
Location: Dijon, Bourgogne, France

Kampfgruppe v. Courbière, Odessa 1941

Post by CNE503 » 24 Mar 2020 12:31

Hello,

Does anyone know what units were involved in the help provided by this Kampfgruppe to the Romanians facing Odessa in September or October 1941?
The Romanian 4th Army was involved in bloody and unsuccessful fights to take this city and the Germans were requested to help them as of September 24th. Apparently, on the ground, this help was mainly provided by this task force led by general von Courbière.
I guess it was a Kampfgruppe led by Generalleutnant René de l'Homme de Courbière, CO 213. Sicherungs-Division, right?

Thank you!
Regards,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

Brad Hunter
Member
Posts: 183
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 15:20
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Kampfgruppe v. Courbière, Odessa 1941

Post by Brad Hunter » 25 Mar 2020 21:06

About 10 year ago, I did extensive OoB and ToE research on the Rumanian Army and Air Force for Gary Grigsby's "War in the East" by Matrix Games. I used Rumanian language sources and NARA records.

The Soviets considered Odessa worth defending, and committed a lot of resources to it's defense. The whole Rumanian 4th Army was decimated in combat around the city, taking all of the 4th Army's units out of the war until 07/42 - 08/42, after they could be rebuilt, reequipped, and retrained.

The Rumanians asked the Germans for assault pioneer and artillery units, and the Germans responded by creating the "Befehlshaber der deutschen Truppen vor Odessa," also know as "Division de Courbiere.” I found this information from a Kriegsgliederung, but, unfortunately, I can't find the exact NARA document. This is from my notes:

"Division de Courbiere”
--HQ – Stab – from 213. Sicherungs-Division
--123.Infanterie-Regiment (-) – From 50.Infanterie-Division
----HQ – Stab
----I./123.Infanterie-Regiment
----II./123.Infanterie-Regiment
----6./Lehr-Regiment “Brandenburg”
--Stab, 604.Pioniere-Regiment
----HQ – Stab
----50.Pioniere-Bataillon (mot.)
----70.Pioniere-Bataillon (bicycle)
----71.Pioniere-Bataillon (bicycle)
----666.Pioniere-Bataillon (mot.)
--Stab, 37.Flak-Regiment
----HQ – Stab
----I./37.Flak-Regiment
----leichte Flak-Abteilung
--Stab, 787.Artillerie-Regiment
----HQ – Stab
----154.Artillerie-Bataillon (mot.)
----901.Kusten-Artillerie-Bataillon
----906.Kusten-Artillerie-Bataillon
--Nachrichten-Kompanie (mot.) From 11.Armee

I hope this helps.

Brad

CNE503
Member
Posts: 2387
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 12:01
Location: Dijon, Bourgogne, France

Re: Kampfgruppe v. Courbière, Odessa 1941

Post by CNE503 » 25 Mar 2020 21:11

Sure it does!
Thank you Brad!
Do you know some relevant facts about this "division": when it was created, what were its main contribution to the siege, when it was disbanded?
Regards,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

CNE503
Member
Posts: 2387
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 12:01
Location: Dijon, Bourgogne, France

Re: Kampfgruppe v. Courbière, Odessa 1941

Post by CNE503 » 15 Apr 2020 11:40

Found it! Date: September 6th, 1941.
Source: NARA T501 R270 file 1038.

Regards,
CNE503
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

CNE503
Member
Posts: 2387
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 12:01
Location: Dijon, Bourgogne, France

Re: Kampfgruppe v. Courbière, Odessa 1941

Post by CNE503 » 15 Apr 2020 13:33

Brad,

It appears that your OoB is wrong on one point: it wasn't I./Infanterie-Regiment 123 but II./Infanterie-Regiment 121 instead.
Artillerie-Abteilung 154 (15cm schwere Feldhaubitze) had authority over 4./Artillerie-Abteilung 818 (probably a heavy artillery battalion, but its status is unclear, LdW doesn't mention it).
The two coastal artillery battalions (Heeres-Küsten-Artillerie-Abteilungen 901 and 906) were equipped with french 155mm guns.
Apparently, the engineers regiment staff wasn't clearly assigned at this time, because it could have been either Pionier-Regimentsstab 604 or 673.

CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

Brad Hunter
Member
Posts: 183
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 15:20
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Kampfgruppe v. Courbière, Odessa 1941

Post by Brad Hunter » 15 Apr 2020 22:13

Excellent - I'm glad you found it - that's what happens when you copy-paste/fat-finger something...

Slava2012
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: 02 Sep 2021 07:40
Location: Украина

Re: Kampfgruppe v. Courbière, Odessa 1941

Post by Slava2012 » 07 Oct 2021 06:02

I have been studying the siege of Odessa for 10 years. I read to the holes all the Soviet mimoirs and foreign forums, especially on artillery.According to the recollections of an old marine who served on the 412 coastal battery (3 guns 180 mm MO-1-180), after its delivery to the enemy, some kind of long-range gun with German servants was installed on its territory. By order of the command of the deviation group of the marines, it was instructed to detonate this long-range gun, which was located on the territory of the 412th coastal battery.As a result of a successful sortie, the deviation group managed to undermine one gun, helped by a local cook who knew the veteran well in joint service and accurately indicated the German guard and the schedule for changing the guard.For reference, from position 412 of the coastal battery to the center of Odessa, 23 kilometers, that is, not every gun could conduct siege fire, and according to the recollections of other veterans, after September 22, 1941, methodical (every 15 minutes) fire led the gun with a callibre of more than 150 mm from a position from beyond the estuaries Moreover, it was on September 22, during a powerful counteroffensive, that a German battery from 149 NKAA fell into the hands of the Russians, and these guns, posing as long-range for several days, were driven around Odessa, gathering crowds of onlookers and simultaneously filming a propaganda film about the successful defense of Odessa.A more in-depth study of the issue showed that on September 22nd 1.battery 149 NKAA (cannon Bofors 105 mm M-27) formed a 4 battery on long-range 170 mm cannons on a marty carriage, which was later sent to the African Corps, but for some reason with 2 17 cm guns, although according to the state, such batteries are usually 3 gun batteries. For further study of the issue there is. Moreover, all Wikipedias list the participation in the siege of Odessa from September 22, 1941, 767 siege battalion armed with 21 cm Czech cannons K-39. Did they shoot in Odessa and for what targets and with what projectile expenditure continuous questions requiring more deep study. If someone is obsessed with such information, please share.
And this year a German contacted me and provided scans of the funeral of two German artillerymen from 149 NKAA who died on September 22, 1941 in the Chebank , Novaya Dofinovka area.
During the siege of Odessa, the Germans sent reinforcements three times from August 17 to September 22, the last time on September 22, so we still do not know all the support forces.
The last time the Romanians requested from the Germans a lot of large-caliber 21 cm artillery and a lot of Nubelwerfers, but they did not have time to shoot, on October 16 the Russians left Odessa.
Another reason for the 17 cm cannon. Now I just measured and compared, and so the 17 cm cannon was used as a counter-battery with a range of 31 km. and the enemy near Odessa until October 16 was exactly the 411 coastal battery, the distance between the positions you will not believe is 31 km.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “Heer, Waffen-SS & Fallschirmjäger”