Squad level firepower comparisons

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yantaylor
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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by yantaylor » 14 Nov 2021 20:36

Yes, the PIAT was usually kept at HQ and used if armour was on the prowl, I don't know if any members of the HQ took it into action or any platoon leader sent a runner back for it, if so one of the platoon would then crew it.
I think the Americans did the same with the bazooka, all trained with it and any squad could use it.

You do see reference to small dedicated anti-tank teams when reading about the war in the east, anti-tank rifles and AT grenades being issued to a detail on both sides, Soviet, Romanian, Hungarian Finnish etc.

Ian

Brady
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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by Brady » 14 Nov 2021 22:15

Gary Kennedy wrote:
14 Nov 2021 15:17
No specific operators for the PIAT in any British Platoon organisation, same as for the Boys before it, they were designated within the Platoon as required.

I do have to try one day and see if there's any obvious pattern to Air Landing Bn wireless set allocation. I've got bits and bobs from multiple contemporary sources (found and donated) but I'm not sure they retained one No.38 set per Rifle Pl after 1943.

The only example load for the handcart I've seen is from the 7 KOSB document, which just shows it as hauling ammunition.

Gary
Again, Thank You, One Finial Question, and I believe this was mentioned in passing a while back:

The Glider Piolets, they had, what every they wanted in the way of personnel weapons ?, but were not expected to fight as part of the Glider Bourn Troops "Platoon" but rater form up with the other glider piolets in there combat element ?

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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by Sheldrake » 15 Nov 2021 03:06

Brady wrote:
14 Nov 2021 22:15
Again, Thank You, One Finial Question, and I believe this was mentioned in passing a while back:

The Glider Piolets, they had, what every they wanted in the way of personnel weapons ?, but were not expected to fight as part of the Glider Bourn Troops "Platoon" but rater form up with the other glider piolets in there combat element ?
In Normandy Glider Pilots may have had individual roles. I met one whose job on landing was to serve a 17 pounder gun, probably the one he flew in.

In Arnhem Glider pilots were organised as their own unit. In Mosquito Victory, Jack Currie a veteran of a full Bomber Command tour as a Lancaster Pilot describes how he was posted into the Glider Pilot Regiment, along with other decorated airmen as platoon commanders. The idea was for some experienced RAF officers to set the example to the young RAF pilots airmen who thought they were going to fly fighters and bombers but ended up as glider pilots. There was a quick and muddy course in Wales. This took place durign the Winter 1944-45.

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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by Gary Kennedy » 15 Nov 2021 19:35

Yes, the GPR was a specialised unit and after the loses at Arnhem it proved very difficult to reconstitute the Regiment, hence the need to take pilots from the RAF to fill out the ranks again mentioned above.

Glider pilots were expected to be able to assist troops in ground combat roles after landing but were not to be absorbed into Inf/Arty/Engr subunits. Once the situation allowed they were to be withdrawn; I think one of the glider pilots from Normandy recalled being harangued by a woman at a station a few days after D-Day, as to why he wasn't fighting in France, and her refusing to believe he'd been and come back!

The official armament of the NCO glider pilots does appear to have been rifles throughout the war but firsthand accounts suggest there was a bit more latitude in reality.

Gary

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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by yantaylor » 15 Nov 2021 21:20

I can't believe how the US Army virtually formed glider battalions from standard Infantry battalions with no choice of opting out, not only that they refused to pay them the same as paratroops.

Ian

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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by yantaylor » 16 Nov 2021 11:45

I can't remember if I have asked this before but...during the early phase of the war (1939-42), did the British have enough Boys ATRs to equip every Infantry platoon? I am currently painting an 8th army platoon and was thing of adding a Boys along with the 2in mortar to the platoon HQ.
I have also noticed that the 2in mortar has only a crew of two, which is one less than the later version circa 1944, which has a lance corporal armed with a sten. I also can't see any radios this early in the war, or not at this level anyway.

Ian

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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by Gary Kennedy » 18 Nov 2021 13:01

Have you had a look at my stuff on the Middle East variation of the British Infantry Battalion, Ian, might give you something to work with.

Gary

yantaylor
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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by yantaylor » 18 Nov 2021 21:07

Hi Gary, I did do mate, in fact I based my source on your June 1941 British platoon.
I have also checked out the April 42 and Nov 42, but wanted to go for the early option because of the 2in mortar and Boys.
My main questions was the availability of the boys, to allow one per platoon, thats an awful lot of ATRs.

Ian

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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by Brady » 27 Nov 2021 20:23

What did these consist of anyone know?

There were a few of them in Holand in 44

..............................

Landesschützen-Bataillon der Luftwaffe

Formed Winter 43/44 in Holland with 5 companies. Renamed Luftwaffen-Festungs-Bataillon XXII on 10.44 in Holland (3 companies).


..................................

Landesschützen-Bataillon der Luftwaffe 4

Formed 4.44 in Holland with 5 companies. Renamed Luftwaffen-Festungs-Bataillon XXI on 12.44 in Holland.


......................

Posably this one as well, was in Holand:

Landesschützen-Bataillon der Luftwaffe 6

Formed Winter 43/44 with 4 companies

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AETIUS 1980
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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 27 Nov 2021 21:08

You should have look with Sven Carlsen book "Deutsche luftwaffen festungs bataillon", Helios publishing.
Regards

Brady
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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by Brady » 27 Nov 2021 21:55

AETIUS 1980 wrote:
27 Nov 2021 21:08
You should have look with Sven Carlsen book "Deutsche luftwaffen festungs bataillon", Helios publishing.
Regards
Thanks for the Tip

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AETIUS 1980
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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 27 Nov 2021 22:03

You're welcome

yantaylor
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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by yantaylor » 01 Dec 2021 16:09

On the theme of squad firepower, you see a lot of references to two flamethrowers in armoured panzer grenadier companies, so where would these be located?
Are they kept at headquarter level?

Ian

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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by Brady » 01 Dec 2021 16:22

yantaylor wrote:
01 Dec 2021 16:09
On the theme of squad firepower, you see a lot of references to two flamethrowers in armoured panzer grenadier companies, so where would these be located?
Are they kept at headquarter level?

Ian
FJ also had them at some level, as well as other formations.

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Re: Squad level firepower comparisons

Post by yantaylor » 01 Dec 2021 20:41

Hi Brady, I noticed them first in one of the Nafziger books, Waffen SS panzer grenadier companies had 18 x LMGs, 4 x HMGs, 2 x 8cm Mortars and 2 x Flamethrowers.

Ian

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