Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

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Hardigan
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Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Hardigan » 14 May 2015 21:57

Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'.

I see 'Panzer-Aces' lists with the most wildest scores in it and mixed with Commanders and gunners while these are two different functions and not comparable. The German Army counted those Panzer kills separately. Also a Panzer Commander was held in higher esteem than a gunner.
If you want to do it 'officially' then it must be devided in a list of 'Panzer Commander Aces' and a list of 'Panzer Gunner Aces' with the official kills only made as Commander or as a gunner. Therefore I made lists according to these guidelines in an overall list of Panzer/PzJäg./StuG personnel. Some Panzer Commanders also had build up an earlier or later score in a StuGAbt./PzJägAbt. = Panzer, so you can't leave it out, although it was counted separately in those days.

As you can see already from 78 Panzer kills upwards all men were awarded with the Knight's Cross and Panzer Badge with higher grade as expected for such a high score (Wittmann and Wendorff didn't receive the Badge due to circumstances in the Bataillon). Only Egger is a questionable Knight's Cross winner and his claim of 113 is his total as gunner and Panzer Commander IMO. And of course there's the commotion about his score in Normandy. Also there's no Panzer Badge with higher grade known what's very strange so I have him listed here as 100+ with a questionmark.

Carius claimed 100-110 Panzer kills in a Panzer and Jagdpanzer together, what's still obscure, it could be 101 or maybe more. His total in a Panzer is probably the known 68.

Kerscher's and Bix's precise scores are also unknown so I have them listed with 100+ .

Rondorf's total was 106 Panzer and AFV's = 106 gepanzerte Fahrzeuge together http://tinyurl.com/Rondorf and that's the reason why he was not awarded with the Knight's Cross.
His score was even higher than 110 kills when you include the ones with his Jagdtiger but still no Knight's Cross by the end of the war ??!! Impossible ! Even with a score of 103 by the beginning of 1944 he should have earned it when it would be a score of only Panzer. There's also written '103 abschüsse' on the back of the photo of Rondorf with Hptm. Scherf, not 'Panzerabschüsse'.
He also wasn't awarded with a Panzer Badge with higher grade as far we know.
And another note :
Die Jagdtiger-Abteilung 512
"The Tiger-kp. Taken over by 1st Lt. Rondorf , an experienced Tankhunter who destroyed some 50 tanks" . (Source : Tiger Die geschichte einer legendären Waffe 1942-1945, Egon Kleine & Volkmar Kühn). This is probably his actual score of some 50 Panzer as Commander in a Panzer (what wasn't enough for a Knight's Cross so late in the war in contrast with the easier obtained Knight's Crosses at the beginning of the war).

Also Gärtner's score was 103 Panzer, AFV's and self-propelled guns = 103 gepanzerte Fahrzeuge bzw. Selbstfahrlafetten together. http://tinyurl.com/G-rtner-H
That he was awarded with 'only' a German Cross and as far as we know wasn't awarded with a Panzer Badge with higher grade says enough of course.
Btw, he was a gunner for a long time and was awarded with the Iron Cross I and II class in this position so he must have build up a score there also.

The Panzer Commanders with high killclaims like Schroif, Oberhuber, Möbius and Sandrock are Panzer and AFV's together. Giesen's total of 111 was Panzer and AFV's together or maybe a combined total as Com./gunner and that's also the reason why he was not even awarded with a German Cross.

It's strange that topscorer Major Gerhard Fischer wasn't in the list with 102 !

Wittmann's total in a Panzer would be 128 after research but his total in Panzer and StuG is 150+ .

The former Panzer Aces lists were full of misunderstandings. Here's my refreshing list with an overview of the 'real' top Panzer Commander Aces.

Harry




Panzer Commander Aces




- Wittmann, Michael, SS-Hstuf. (SS-StuGBatt.”LAH”/s.SS-PzAbt.501) (StuG.III/Tiger I) (SCHW) – 150+
- Bölter, Johannes, Hptm. (s.PzAbt.502) (Tiger I) (EL,DKiG,PKA"50") – 139
- Körner, Karl, SS-Hscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (RK,PKA"75") – 102
- Fischer, Gerhard, Major (PzRgt.23) (Panther) (RK,DKiG,PKA"100") – 102
- Knauth, Wilhelm, Hptm. d.R. (s.PzAbt.505) (Tiger II) (RK,DKiG,Ehblsp.,PKA"50") – 101
- Carius, Otto, Olt. d.R. (s.PzAbt.502/s.PzJägAbt.512) (Tiger I/Jagdtiger) (EL,PKA"75") – 100+
- Kerscher, Albert, Ofw. (s.PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (RK,PKA"75") – 100+
- Bix, Hermann, FahnJu. (3./PzRgt.35) (Panther/Jagdpanther) (RK,DKiG,PKA"100") – 100+
- Egger, Paul, SS-Oscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (RK*,DKiG) (113 as Com./gunner ?) – 100+ ?
- Wendorff, Helmut, SS-Ostuf. (13.(s.)/SS-PzRgt.1) (Tiger I) (RK) – 84
- Barkmann, Ernst, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzRgt.2) (Panther) (RK,PKA"25") – 82+
- Bäke Dr., Franz, Oberst (PzRgt.11/s.PzAbt.503/PzBrig.106) (Panther) (SCHW,PKA"100") – 79
- Eckardt, Hermann, Ofw. (PzAbt.8) (StuG./Pz.IV) (RK,DKiG,PKA"25") – 78
- Warnick, Heinrich, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzRgt.2) (Tiger I/Panther) (EKI) – 77
- Litzke, Erich, Ofw. (s.PzAbt.509) (Tiger II) (RK) – 76
- Spranz, Bodo, Hptm. (StuGAbt.185/237) (StuG.IV) (EL,DKiG,ASA"25") – 76
- Lochmann, Franz-Wilhelm, Uffz. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (EKI,PKA"75") – 75+
- Schmitt, Johann, (StuGAbt.261) (StuG.) (RK) – 75
- Diers, Georg, SS-Uscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 74+
- Fey, Willi, SS-StOju. (s.SS-PzAbt.502) (Tiger I) (RK*,DKiG*,PKA"50") – 73
- Ludwig, Hubert, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzRgt.2) (Panther) (DKiG*) – 70+
- Strippel, Hans, Lt. (PzRgt.1) (Pz.IV) (EL,PKA"75",DKiG) – 70
- Seibold, Emil, SS-Hscha. (SS-PzRgt.2) (T-34/Pz.IV) (RK*,DKiG) – 69
- Primozic, Hugo, Olt. (StuGAbt.667) (StuG.III) (EL) – 68+
- Brommann, Karl, SS-Ustuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (RK) – 66
- Brandner, Josef William, Major (StuGAbt.912) (StuG.III) (EL,DKiG,Ehblsp.,ASA"100") – 66
- Larsen, Rudolf, Feldw. (PzRgt."Grossdeutschland") (Panther) (RK,PKA"25") – 66
- Sauer, Konrad, Hptm. d.R. (StuGBrig.393) (StuG.) (EL,Ehblsp.) – 65
- Engelmann, Richard, Hptm. (StuGAbt.912) (StuG.III) (RK,DKiG,Ehblsp.) – 62
- Amselgruber, Thomas, SS-Ustuf. d.R. (SS-StuGAbt.1/s.SS-PzAbt.501) (StuG./Tiger II) (DKiG) 60+
- Weinert, Konrad, Lt. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (DKiG) – 59
- Timpe, Heinrich Karl, Lt. (StuGBrig.300) (StuG.) (DKiG) – 59 ?
- Rohr v., Hans-Babo, Olt. (PzRgt.25) (Panther) (EL) – 58
- Giese, Hans, Lt. (PzAbt.5) (Panther) (RK,DKiG) – 58
- Junge, Walter, Gefr. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 57+
- Rubbel, Alfred, Lt. d.R. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (EKI,PKA"50") – 57
- Witte, Albert, Lt. (StuGBrig.394) (StuG.) (RK) – 56
- Rohrbacher, Josef, Owm. (StuGBrig.245) (StuG.) (RK) – 56
- Elsner, Herbert, Ofw. (PzRgt.23) (Panther) (DKiG,PKA"75") – 56
- Kochanowski, Johannes, Lt. (StuGAbt.201) (StuG.III) (RK,ASA"50") – 55
- Ernst, Albert, Hptm. (s.PzJägAbt.519/512) (Nashorn/Hornisse/Jagdtiger) (RK,Ehblsp.) – 55
- Engelmann, Richard, Hptm. (StuGBrig.912) (StuG.) (RK,DKiG) – 54
- Heubeck, Konrad, SS-Ustuf. d.R. (SS-PzRgt.1) (Panther) (RK,DKiG) – 52
- Kling, Heinrich, SS-Stubaf. (s.SS-PzAbt.101) (Tiger I) (RK,DKiG) – 51+
- Knecht, Walter, SS-Oscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.102) (Tiger I) – 51+
- Glagow, Ernst, SS-Uscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.102) (Tiger I) – 51+
- Brehme, Gerhard, Ofw. (PzRgt.15) (Panther) (RK,DKiG) – 51
- Arnold, Friedrich, Hptm. (StuGAbt.201/237) (StuG.III) (RK,DKiG,ASA"50") – 51
- Rondorf, Heinrich, Olt. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger I) (DKiG) – 50+
- Schäfer, Oskar, SS-Ustuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (RK) – 50+
- Kühn, Hans-Jochen, Hptm. d.R. (PzRgt.36) (RK,DKiG) – 50+
- Müller, Johann, Ofw. (s.PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (RK) – 50+
- Adamowitsch, Felix, Hptm. (StuGAbt.904) (StuG.) (RK,DKiG) – 50+
- Fiebig, Walter, Wachtm. (StuGAbt.301) (StuG.) (DKiG) – 50+
- Mausberg, Heinrich, Ofw. (s.PzAbt.505) (Tiger II) (DKiG,PKA"25") – 50+
- Carpaneto, Alfredo, Uffz. (s.PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (RK,PKA"25") – 50
- Dallmeier, Josef, Olt. (PzJägKp.1183) (Hetzer) (RK) – 50
- Senghas, Paul, SS-Hstuf. (SS-PzRgt.5) (Pz.IV) (RK,DKiG,PKA"25") – 49
- Roeder, Paul, (Pz"Lehr"Div.) – 49
- Spielmann, Johann, Major (StuGAbt.197/StuGBrig.202) (StuG.III/Elefant) (EL) – 48
- Zillmann, Erich, StWm. (StuGBrig.244) (StuG.) (RK,DKiG,ASA"50") – 48
- Lutz, Waldemar, Hptm. (StuGAbt.245) (StuG.) (RK) – 47
- Höper, Ahrend, Lt. d.R. (StuGBrig.202) (StuG.III) (RK,ASA"50") – 47
- Weissflog, Hans-Joachim, Olt. (PzRgt.16/116.PzDiv.) (Panther) (RK,PKA"25") – 47+
- Brandt, Jürgen, SS-Oscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.501) (Tiger II) (DKiG,PKA"25") – 47
- Ohler, Kurt, Uffz. (StuGAbt.270/PzJägAbt.152) (StuG.) – 47
- Scholz, Paul, (s.PzAbt.505) (Tiger I) – 46
- Casselheim, Frank, ("Grossdeutschland") – 46
- Müller, Eduard, Olt. (StuGAbt.244) (StuG.) (RK,DKiG) – 46
- Deutsch, Heinz, Olt. (FschStuGBrig.12) (StuG.III) (RK) – 46
- Paul, Roland, SS-Ostuf. (SS-PzJägAbt.2) (StuG.III/JagdPz.IV) (DKiG,PKA"50") – 45+
- Przedwojewski, Felix, SS-Uscha. (SS-StuGAbt.3) (StuG.III) (RK) – 45
- Raum, Otto, Olt. d.R. (PzRgt.3) (Pz.IV) (Ehblsp.) – 45
- Bose, Georg, Lt. (StuGAbt.300/177/PzJägAbt.69) (StuG.III) (RK,PKA"50",ASA"25") – 44
- Pfreundtner, Karl, Ofw. (StuGAbt.244) (StuG.III) (RK) – 43
- Kalss, Alois, SS-Hstuf. d.R. (s.SS-PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (RK,DKiG,PKA"75") >42
- Amling, Fritz, Owm. (StuGAbt.202) (StuG.III) (RK) – 42+
- Knispel, Kurt, Feldw. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (DKiG,PKA"25") – 42
- Aman, Herbert, Hptm. (StuGAbt.905) (StuG.) (RK) – 42
- Scherf, Fritz, Ofw. (PzAbt.103) (Panther) (RK) – 42
- Scholl, Joachim, SS-Hstuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.102) (Tiger I) (DKiG*?) – 42
- Riedel, Franz, SS-Ostuf. (SS-PzRgt.10) (StuG.III/Pz.IV) (RK,DKiG,PKA"25") – 40+
- Schäfer, Georg, Ofw. (PzRgt.1) (Pz.IV) (RK) – 40+
- Wegener, Paul, Owm. (StuGAbt.237) (StuG.) (RK,DKiG) – 40+
- Scharf, Heinz, FahnJu/Owm. (StuGBrig.202) (StuG.) (RK,DKiG) – 40+
- Oberloskamp, Walter, Olt. d.R. (StuGAbt.667) (StuG.III) (RK) – 40+
- Tornau, Gottfried, Major (StuGBrig."FührBeglBrig.") (StuG.) (RK,DKiG,ASA"25") – 40
- Schwalb, Helmuth, Major (StuGBrig.190) (StuG.III) (RK,DKiG,Ehblsp.) – 40
- Tadje, Friedrich, Hptm. (StuGAbt.190) (StuG.III) (RK,DKiG) – 39
- Henke, Fritz, SS-Ustuf. (SS-StuGAbt.1) (StuG.III) (RK,PKA"25") – 38
- Laubmeier, Ludwig, Hptm. d.R. (StuGBrig.191) (StuG.III) (RK,Ehblsp.) – 38
- Baurmann, Heinz, Hptm. (StuGAbt.667)/StuGBrig.322/300) (StuG.III) (RK,DKiG) – 38
- Angel, Otto, Feldw. (PzJägAbt.6) (JagdPz.38) (RK) – 38
- Siegel, Hans, SS-Stubaf. (SS-PzRgt.12) (Pz.IV) (RK) – 37
- Roy, Rudolf, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzJägAbt.12) (JagdPz.IV) (RK) – 37
- Schram, Richard, Lt. (StuGAbt.202) (StuG.III) (RK) – 37
- Herzig, Johann, Olt. (s.PzAbt.508) (Tiger I) – 36
- Dieter, Gert, (Pz"Lehr"Div.) – 36
- Malachowski v., Wilhelm, Major i.G. (StuGAbt.228) (StuG.) (EL) – 35+
- Staudegger, Franz, SS-StJu. (s.SS-PzAbt.101) (Tiger I) (RK) – 35
- Brandt, Gerhard Alfred, Olt. (StuGBrig.202) (StuG.) (RK,ASA"25") – 35
- Kramer, Richard Otto, Olt. (StuGBrig.252) (StuG.) (RK) – 35
- Dauser, Hans, SS-Ostuf. d.R. (SS-PzRgt.1) (Panther) (RK) – 34+
- Schumacher, Kurt, SS-Ostuf. (SS-PzRgt.5) (Pz.IV) (RK,DKiG,PKA"50") – 32+
- Niemeck, Gerhard, Fahnj.-Ofw. (PzRgt.31) (Pz.III) (RK) – 32
- Serck, Julius, Owm. d.R. (StuGBrig.300) (StuG.) (RK,ASA"50") – 32
- Biermeier, Fritz, SS-Stubaf. (SS-PzRgt.3) (Pz.IV) (EL,PKA"25") – 31+
- Rettlinger, Karl, SS-Stubaf. (SS-StuGAbt.1/SS-PzJägAbt.1) (StuG) (RK,DKiG) – 30+
- Brede, Fritz, SS-Oscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 30+
- Kirchner, Kurt, Wachtm. (StuGBatt.667) (StuG.III) (RK) – 30+
- Stier, Gottwald, Wachtm. (StuGBatt.667) (StuG.III) (RK) – 30+
- Trägner, Josef Owm. (StuGBatt.667) (StuG.III) (RK) – 30+
- Grossrock, Alfred, SS-Ostuf. (SS-PzRgt.5) (Panther) (RK,DKiG) – 29
- Scherf, Walter, Hptm. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger I) (RK,DKiG,PKA"50") – 29
- Bausch Dr. Jur., Albert, Major d.R. (StuGAbt.286) (StuG.) (RK,DKiG) – 29
- Buhr, Martin, Obstlt. (StuGAbt.202) (StuG.) (RK) – 29
- Schliesmann, Kurt, Hptm. (StuGBrig.286) (StuG.) (RK,ASA"25") – 29
- Esslinger, Willi, SS-Hscha. (SS-PzJägAbt.5) (JagdPz.) (RK) – 28+
- Kauerauf, Fritz, SS-Ustuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 28
- Bostell v., Wolfgang, Olt. (PzJägKp.1023/205) (StuG.III) (EL,PKA"25") – 28
- Alex, Ernst, Olt. (StuGAbt.243) (StuG.III) (RK) – 27+
- Banze, Karl Heinrich, Owm. (StuGAbt.244) (StuG.III) (RK) – 27
- Naumann, Horst, Lt. (StuGAbt.184) (StuG.III) (RK,ASA"50") – 27
- Ertel, Reinhold, Hptm. (StuGAbt.276) (StuG.) (RK) – 27
- Harrer, SS-Hscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 25+
- Rosen v., Richard Freiherr, Olt. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (DkiG,PKA"25") – 25+
- Mennel, Hans, SS-Ustuf. (SS-PzRgt.1) (Pz.IV) (Ehblsp.) – 25+
- Stegmaier, Alfons, (SS-PzJägAbt.2) (StuG.III) (DKiG) – 25+
- Truxa, Rolf, Hptm. (StuGBrig.190) (StuG.III) (RK,DKiG,Ehblsp.) – 25+
- Schwarzenbacher, Josef, Wm. (StuGBrig.912) (StuG.) (RK) – 25+
- Dath, Friedrich, Owm. (StuGBrig.286) (StuG.) (RK) – 25
- Malkomes, Hans, SS-Hstuf. d.R. (SS-PzRgt.1) (Panther) (RK,DKiG) – 24+
- Kändler, Willi, SS-Ustuf. (SS-PzRgt.12) (Pz.IV) – 24+
- Sametreiter, Kurt, SS-Ustuf. (SS-PzJägAbt.1) (StuG.III) (RK) – 24+
- Müller, SS-Ostuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 23+
- Becker, Heinrich, Lt. (PzRgt.31) (Pz.III) (RK) – 23+
- Roehder, Wolfgang, SS-Stubaf. (SS-StuGAbt.2) (StuG.III) (RK,DKiG) – 23+
- Metzger, Eugen, Lt. (StuGAbt.203) (StuG.) (RK) – 23
- Rade, Hans-Dietrich, Hptm. (StuGAbt.244) (StuG.III) (DKiG) – 23
- Angelmaier, Heinz, Hptm. d.R. (StuGBrig.279) (RK,DKiG,Ehblsp.) – 23
- Chrzonsz, Günter, Lt. (StuGAbt.277) (StuG.III) (RK) – 23
- Göring, Kurt, Ofw. (s.PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (DKiG,PKA"100") >22
– Wagner, Klaus Herbert, Hptm. (StuGAbt.667) (StuG.III) (RK,DKiG) – 22
- Zitzen, Kurt Heinrich, Hptm. (StuGAbt.177) (StuG.III) (RK) – 22
- Soretz, Hans, SS-Ostuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (DKiG) – 22
- Teriete, Heinrich, Lt. (s.PzJägAbt.653) (RK,PKA"50") – 22
- Sowada, Bernhard, Olt. d.R. (StuGAbt.237) (RK) – 21+
- Grunert, Anton, (StuGAbt.201) (StuG.III) – 21+
- Köhler, Heinrich, Lt. d.R. (StuGAbt.322/210) (RK,ASA"25") – 21
- Kretschmer, Franz, Olt. (s.PzJägAbt.656) (RK) – 21
- Soretz, Hans, SS-Ostuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (DKiG) – 20
- Holzer, Friedrich, SS-Ostubaf. (SS-PzRgt.2) (Panther) (RK,DKiG) – 19+
- Dahlke, Erwin, SS-Ustuf. (SS-PzRgt.9) – 19+
- Woll, Balthasar, SS-Oscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.501) (Tiger II) (RK) – 19+
- Kausch, Paul-Albert, SS-Ostubaf. (SS-PzRgt.11) (Panther) (EL) – 19
- Straub, Johann, Lt. (StuGAbt.1007/Pz-JägAbt.7) (StuG.III) (RK,DKiG) – 18+
– Rempel, Feldw. (13.(s.)Kp./PzRgt."Grossdeutschland") (Tiger I) – 18+
– Bauer, Hans, Olt. (StuGAbt.232) (StuG.III) – 17+
- Ludwig, Franz, Olt. (StuGAbt.1346) (StuG.) (RK) – 17+
- Nippes, Kurt, Olt. d.R. (StuGAbt.276) (StuG.) (RK) – 17
- Hartelt, Wolfgang, Ofahnr. (FschPzRgt."HG") (Panther) (RK) – 17
- Feldheim, Hermann, Lt. d.R. (s.PzJägAbt.654) (DKiG) – 16
- Kretszchmar, Willi, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzRgt.12) (Pz.IV) – 15+
- Gassner, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzRgt.9) – 15+
- Engel, Heinrich, Wachtm. (StuGAbt.259) (RK) – 15+
- Lucke v. Claus, Lt. (PzRgt.18) (Pz.III/IV) – 15+
- Bauer, Ludwig, Lt. (PzRgt.33) (Panther) (RK*,PKA"25") – 15
- Privatzki, Artur, SS-Uscha. (SS-PzRgt.3) (Tiger I) – 14+
- Köstler, Feldw. (s.SS-PzAbt.511) (Tiger II) – 14+
- Ribbentrop v., Rudolf, SS-Hstuf. (SS-PzRgt.12) (Pz.IV) (RK,DKiG,PKA"25") – 14
- Beutler, Walter, Owm. (StuGAbt.245) (StuG.) (RK) – 14
- Strauss, P.F., Lt. (s.PzAbt.502) (Tiger I) – 13+
- Bruins, Derk-Elsko, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzJägAbt.54) (StuG.III) (RK) – 12+
- Berg, Karl-Erich, Hptm. (StuGAbt.191) (StuG.III) (RK,Ehblsp.) – 12+
- Bertram, Ludwig, Hptm. (StuGBrig.237) (RK) – 12+
- Feldkamp, Heinrich, Owm. (StuGBrig.341) (RK) – 12
- Moj, (StuGAbt.190) (StuG.III) – 12
- Wegner, Wilhelm, Lt. (StuGBrig."Grossdeutschland") (StuG.) (RK,DKiG,ASA"25") – 12
- Hurdelbrink, Georg, SS-Ostuf. d.R. (SS-PzJägAbt.12) (JagdPz.IV) (RK) – 11+
– Bahr v., Lt. (PzRgt.27) (Pz.IV) – 11+
- Freyer, Siegfried, (PzRgt.24) (RK) – 11
- Sachs, Feldw. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 11
- Weidenbrück, Wilhelm, Olt. (PzRgt.3) (EL,DKiG) – 10+
- Beyer, Olt. (13.(s.)/PzRgt."Grossdeutschland") (Tiger I) – 10+
- Wierschin, Stbsfw. (PzRgt.18) (Pz.III/IV) – 10+
- Regeniter Dr. med., Alfred, Lt. (StuGBrig.276) (RK) – 10
- Langanke, Fritz, SS-Ostuf. (SS-PzRgt.2) (Panther) (RK) – 9+
- Wagner, Hans Joachim, Hptm. (StuGBrig.286) (RK) – 9+
– Rambow, Richard, Uffz. (PzJägAbt.561) (Marder III) (RK,Ehblsp.) – 9
- Fromme, Rolf, Hptm. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger I) (RK) – 9
- Baumeister, Hans, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzRgt.3) (Pz.IV) – 9
- Weller, Heinz, Feldw. (s.PzAbt.510) (Tiger II) (PKA"50") – 8+
- Mühleck, Karl, SS-Ostuf. (SS-PzRgt.2) (Panther) (RK,Ehblsp.) – 7+
- Gilow, Peter, Olt. (PzRgt.1) (RK,DKiG,PKA"25") – 7+
- Bender, SS-Uscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 7+
- Rudolf, Richard, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzRgt.12) (Pz.IV) (RK) – 6+
– Korf, Heinrich, Lt. (StuGAbt.177) (StuG.III) (DKiG) – 6+
- Warmbrunn, Karl-Heinz, SS-Uscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.501) (Tiger II) (EKI,PKA"25") – 6
- Stolze, SS-Oscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 5+
- Scholte, SS-Hscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 5+
- Junge, SS-Oscha. (SS-PzRgt.12) (Pz.IV) – 5+
- Kniep, Walter, SS-Stubaf. (SS-StuGAbt.2/SS-PzAbt.17) (StuG.IV) (RK,DKiG) – 5+
- Günther, Alfred, SS-Ustuf. (SS-StuGAbt.1/s.SS-PzAbt.101) (StuG.III/Tiger I) (RK) – 5+
– Mol, Lt. (PzRgt.4) (Pz.III) – 5+
– Hauswald, Karl, Fw. (PzRgt.33) (Pz.IV) (Ehblsp.) – 5+
– Bartels, Günther, Lt. (PzJägAbt.38) (Marder III) – 5+
- Kesten, Dieter, SS-Stubaf. (SS-PzRgt.2) (Pz.IV) (RK) – 4+
- Streng, Ernst, SS-Oscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) – 4+
- Bolte, Hermann, SS-Ostuf. (SS-StuGAbt.2/SS-PzRgt.2) (StuG.III) (DKiG) – 3+
- Amselgruber, Thomas, SS-Ustuf. d.R. (s.SS-PzAbt.501) (Tiger I) (DKiG) – 3+
- Hurler, Anton, Obgefr. (PzRgt.23) (EKI,PKA"25") – 3
- Bourzel, Lt. (1.PzDiv.) – 3





Unknown :



- Giesen, Arno, SS-Uscha. (8./SS-PzRgt.2) (Tiger I) (EKI,PKA"75" ?) (111 as Com./gunner)
- Schroif, Martin, SS-Ustuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (161 Pz and AFV)
- Oberhuber, SS-Oscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.102) (Tiger I) (127 Pz and AFV)
- Möbius, Rudolf, SS-Hstuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.501) (Tiger II) (DKiG) (125 Pz and AFV)
- Sandrock, Hans, Major (FschPzRgt."HG"/SS-PzRgt.12) (StuG.) (RK,DKiG,PKA"50") (123 Pz and AFV)
- Lang, Fritz, Wachtm. (StuGAbt.232) (StuG.) (EKI) (113 Pz and AFV)
- Gärtner, Heinz, Feldw. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (DKiG) (Com./gunner) (103 Pz and AFV's)
- Dieter, SS-Ustuf. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (50+ Pz and AFV)
- Geiner, Oskar, SS-Uscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (50+ Pz and AFV)



* unconfirmed Award
> minimum of…..but has a (much) higher score
Last edited by Hardigan on 15 May 2015 21:54, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Hardigan » 14 May 2015 22:01

And here my list of "Panzer Gunner Aces". It's difficult to make this list complete because of a lot of topscorers their score is unknown.
Herbertz, the gunner of Karl Körner, was probably the highest scoring Ace if he was with him all the time, what he presumable was in that very short period of service.
Reichel was also an outstanding gunner with a unknown high score in an amazing short time of service with Brommann.
Knispel's score as gunner was according to his crew 60-70.(source : Otto Carius)



Panzer Gunner Aces




- Woll, Balthasar “Bobby”, SS-Oscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.501) (Tiger I) (RK) – 81
- Knispel, Kurt, Feldw. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (DKiG,PKA"25") 60+
- Reichel, Emil, SS-Uscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (EKI) >50
- Buchner, Heinz, SS-Ustuf. (SS-PzRgt.1) (EKI) – 51+
- Kramer, Heinz, Uffz. (s.PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (RK) – 50+
- Eggers, Johann, Uffz. (PzRgt.6) (RK) – 48
- Warmbrunn, Karl-Heinz, SS-Uscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.101) (Tiger I) (EKI,PKA"25") – 44
– Kothe, Wolf-Dieter, (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) >40
– Himmelskamp, Bernhard, Ogefr. (PzRgt.35) (RK) – 40
– Hendricks, Heinrich, Ufw. (PzRgt.33) (RK,PKA"25") – 38+
– Burmester, Martin, Uffz. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 30
– Klöckner, Hans, SS-Strmn. (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) – 28
- Eckstein, Fritz, SS-Uscha. (SS-PzJägAbt.12) (JagdPz.IV) (RK) – 26+
- Schwarzenbacher, Josef, Wm. (StuGBrig.912) (StuG.) (RK,ASA"25") – 25+
- Loewe, Uffz. (s.PzAbt.502) (Tiger I) – 25+
– Rambow, Richard, Uffz. (PzJägAbt.561) (JagdPz.I) (RK,Ehblsp.) – 20
- Biermann, Feldw. (s.PzAbt.511) (Tiger II) – 14+
- Ruhe, (s.PzAbt.502) (Tiger I) – 13+
- Wüster, Rudolf, (s.SS-PzAbt.502) (Tiger II) (EKII) – 12




Unknown :


- Herbertz, (s.SS-PzAbt.503) (Tiger II)
- Giesen, Arno, SS-Uscha. (8./SS-PzRgt.2) (Tiger I) (PKA"75" ?) (111 as Com./gunner)
- Gärtner, Heinz, Feldw. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger II) (DKiG) (103 as Com./gunner ?)
- Rondorf, Heinrich, Olt. (s.PzAbt.503) (Tiger I) (DKiG)
- Harth, Helmuth, Uffz. (12./PzRgt.12) (RK) (60+ as Com./gunner)
- Klinck, SS-Rttf. (SS-StuGBatt,”LAH”) >10
- Wicht, Uffz. (s.PzAbt.504) (Tiger I) (EKI) >7
- Wagner, Karl, SS-Uscha. (s.SS-PzAbt.101) (Tiger I) (EKII)
- Wagner, Günter, SS-Schütze (s.SS-PzAbt.101) (Tiger I) (EKII) >6
- Kuhn, Walter, Uffz. (3./PzJägAbt.1) (RK)



* unconfirmed Award
> minimum of…..but has a (much) higher score
Last edited by Hardigan on 15 May 2015 22:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by NagaSadow » 14 May 2015 23:03

I can add a few:

Rambow, Richard, Uffz. (1./Pz.Jg.Abt. 561) (Pz.Jg. I/Marder III) - 29=+ (20 as a gunner, 9 as a commander)
Bauer, Hans, (Oblt.) (1./Stu.Gesch.Abt. 232) (Stu.Gesch. III) - 17=+
Lucke, Claus von, (Lt.) (9./Pz.Rgt. 18) (Pz.Kpfw. III/IV) - 15=+
Pültz, Theodor, (Lt.) (5./Pz.Aufkl.Abt. 9) (Sd.Kfz. 233) - 12=+
Bahr, von, (Lt.) (Pz.Rgt. 27) (Pz.Kpfw. IV) - 11=+
Wierschin, ?, (Stfw.) (2./Pz.Rgt. 18) (Pz.Kpfw. III/IV) - 10=+
Weidenbrück, Wilhelm, (Oblt.) (5./Pz.Rgt. 3) - 10=+
Gilow, Peter, (Oblt.) (2./Pz.Rgt. 1) - 7=+
Korf, Heinrich, (Lt.) (3./Stu.Gesch.Abt. 177) (Stu.Gesch. III) - 6+
Moll (Lt.) (1./Pz.Rgt. 4) (Pz.Kpfw. III) - 5=+
Hauswald, Karl, (Fw.) (3./Pz.Rgt. 33) (Pz.Kpfw. IV) - 5=+
Bartels, Günther, (Lt.) (3./Pz.Jg.Abt. 38) (Marder III) - 5=+

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by pintere » 15 May 2015 02:10

Does anyone know Kurt Göring's score? He won the Panzer badge in gold in a Tiger (s.PzAbt. 502), so he must have chalked up a few as well.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by NagaSadow » 15 May 2015 08:48

Göring claimed at least 22 if i add up all claims that i know of (2x July 1943, 20x April 1944).

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Hardigan » 15 May 2015 22:06

Thanks NagaSadow, they're also in the list now.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Miles Krogfus » 16 May 2015 05:59

Kurt Goering was born October 30,1917. Began combat with 502 Tiger Abt. July 21,1943 when his Tiger had as gunner 22 year old Uffz. Heinz Kramer. With the 502 until April 7,1945 when his Tiger ko'd, he wounded. Awarded GCiG as Ofw. Oct 9,1944. Claimed 56 AFV: T60, T34/76, T34/85, SU 122 and 152. Most tanks shot on one day: April 11,1944 south of Pleskau when he shot 13.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by pintere » 16 May 2015 16:07

Miles Krogfus wrote:Kurt Göring was born October 30,1917. Began combat with 502 Tiger Abt. July 21,1943 when his Tiger had as gunner 22 year old Uffz. Heinz Kramer. With the 502 until April 7,1945 when his Tiger ko'd, he wounded. Awarded GCiG as Ofw. Oct 9,1944. Claimed 56 AFV: T60, T34/76, T34/85, SU 122 and 152. Most tanks shot on one day: April 11,1944 south of Pleskau when he shot 13.
Now that's more like it! Where exactly did you get the 56 number from, incidentally? I'm very interested in the 502nd, and any sources of info I haven't found yet would be of great help.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Miles Krogfus » 17 May 2015 01:26

In letters, Göring sent me info on his career. He was reliable in his answers to questions, and gave me a few documents. I'll look over the published material on the 502nd to check what interesting data I have (from 502 vets and archive pages) that hasn't been revealed yet. . . Göring's first Tiger number was 213.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by pintere » 17 May 2015 17:03

Miles Krogfus wrote:In letters, Göring sent me info on his career. He was reliable in his answers to questions, and gave me a few documents. I'll look over the published material on the 502nd to check what interesting data I have (from 502 vets and archive pages) that hasn't been revealed yet. . . Göring's first Tiger number was 213.
I'd love to see any info on the 502nd you have. You can send me a PM if you are interested.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by pintere » 24 Aug 2015 22:37

I've been doing some research on Ulf-Ola Olin, who was part of II./SS-Panzer-Regiment 5. I notice he's not on the list. Apparently he is credited with 34 tanks and 11 AT guns destroyed. Perhaps you could add him?

Source: https://books.google.ca/books?id=LUSXBg ... ng&f=false

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 24 Aug 2015 23:57

It should be noted that these scores reflect claims, not actual kills. The real number of kills would be significantly lower.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by pintere » 25 Aug 2015 02:39

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:It should be noted that these scores reflect claims, not actual kills. The real number of kills would be significantly lower.
Quite right, but it would be a bit of a challenge to fact-check every single claim. As long as one doesn't take these kill lists at face value, I think they serve their purpose.

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Miles Krogfus » 03 Oct 2015 23:48

Ola Olin AND his Panther zug were officially credited in his DK in Gold recommendation with 24 "shot" tanks and 11 heavy (76.2 mm) Anti-tank guns in 4 combats August through October 1944. These are not just "claims," and I already have noted what "shot" meant. Olin himself did not shoot all these. His Berlin Document Center file has NO OTHER mention of his career kills, neither do any 5 SS unit's nor Higher HQ documents that I have read mention other kills by him.
I know of obscure Panzer "Aces" who received no published attention, as the gunner with (his Panzer IV commander claims) 101 Soviet "shot". Remember that it was airplane fighter pilots who consistently had their kill totals added up and kept track of by their units. Just some people in tanks caught the eye of the press or Hitler, so had their tallies correlated, otherwise . . .

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Re: Panzer kills for 'Panzer Commander Aces' and 'Panzer Gunner Aces'

Post by Griffin brigade » 06 Oct 2015 10:38

Interesting that Hans Siegel has 37 " Kills 2 where did that figure come from ??

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