The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

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RichTO90
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by RichTO90 » 22 Sep 2011 11:11

John Hilly wrote:
WAKEN wrote:5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Carpiquet airfield north
5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Carpiquet airfield south
5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Les Crasieres
5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - St Manvieu Norrey east
Are you sure that one battery - 5th - could have had 12 guns + 5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Carpiquet airfield northwest?
Or is there some confusion in the abbreviations? :?

Greets
Juha-Pekka :milwink:
Yes, four platoons (12 guns) was the typical organization for a leichte batterie in a gemischte abteilung. Five platoons would have been less usual, but wasn't uncommon IIRC.

Cheers!
Richard Anderson
Cracking Hitler's Atlantic Wall: the 1st Assault Brigade Royal Engineers on D-Day
Stackpole Books, 2009.

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John Hilly
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by John Hilly » 22 Sep 2011 11:41

Thanks, Rich!
Couldn't imagine they had four or even five platoons in one Bry! 8O

Cheers
Juha-Pekka :milsmile:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

Larry D.
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Larry D. » 22 Sep 2011 13:35

Here is some additional information that might be useful, although the issue over the number of Züge is unclear:

The KStN for a le.Flak-Battr. (v) in 1943-44 called for:
3 Offz., 30 Uffz., 120 Mannsch.
2 x le. MG
12 x 2-cm Flak
3 x 2-cm Flakvierling
4 x 60-cm Flak-Sw.
2 x Kfz.
16 x Anh.
2 x Kräder

[Source: Koch, Flak, p.658]

WAKEN
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by WAKEN » 22 Sep 2011 14:23

That's great Larry. Do you happen to have the authorised number of rifles and sub machineguns from that KStN too? If you have the time I would really appreciate it if you could post the KStN details for the same period for a 3,7cm battery and an 8,8cm battery.

Thanks very much!

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John Hilly
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by John Hilly » 22 Sep 2011 18:55

Was the original purpose of the 'gemischte Abteilungen' that light platoons were deployed as a Short-Range cover of heavy ones?

Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

RichTO90
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by RichTO90 » 22 Sep 2011 22:10

John Hilly wrote:Was the original purpose of the 'gemischte Abteilungen' that light platoons were deployed as a Short-Range cover of heavy ones?

Juha-Pekka :milwink:
No, it appears the leichte Züge in the schwere Batterie were intended for that role. Otherwise, it appears the leichte Batterie was deployed for point defense within the deployment area of the Abteilung as required. And, as we see in this case, it was also possible for them to be deployed independently to defend a particular place.

Larry, thanks for posting that; I forgot all about the vierlings and all my paper docs are still packed up from my move and will be until I get a new filing cabinet...and figure out where to put it. :lol:

Cheers!
Richard Anderson
Cracking Hitler's Atlantic Wall: the 1st Assault Brigade Royal Engineers on D-Day
Stackpole Books, 2009.

Larry D.
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Larry D. » 23 Sep 2011 17:09

WAKEN wrote:That's great Larry. Do you happen to have the authorised number of rifles and sub machineguns from that KStN too? If you have the time I would really appreciate it if you could post the KStN details for the same period for a 3.7cm battery and an 8.8cm battery.
Thanks very much!
schw.Flak-Battr. (v) (1942-44 period):
2 Offz., 21 Uffz., 81 Mannsch.
2 x le. MG
2 x 2-cm Flak
6 x 8.8-cm Flak
2 x Kfz.
9 x Anh.
2 x Kräder

mittl.Flak-Battr. (v) (1942-44 period):
3 Offz., 30 Uffz., 120 Mannsch.
2 x le. MG
9 x 3.7-cm Flak
4 x 60-cm Flak-Sw.
2 x Kfz.
16? Anh.
2 x Kräder

[Source: Koch, Flak, p.658]

No information on allowance for pistols, rifles and Schmeissers.

M.I. 15/War Office Whitehall put out a massive 12-volume mimeographed study of the German Flak forces in 1946 that has reproductions of most of the actual Flak KStNs and these would show the allowance numbers for small arms.

L.

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by WAKEN » 23 Sep 2011 19:31

Many thanks for posting that information Larry.

Regards,

Neil

JRW1944
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by JRW1944 » 21 Oct 2014 19:22

My uncle's B-17G 'I'll Get By' was shot down by flak on 2 Aug 44 at Airan, Calvados, France. I have attached the Mising A/C Report of the loss. I also have the German flak unit's report of the action (also attached). This is what I wrote about the German report.

In Aug 44 two batteries, each with 4 8,8cm Flak (Flugzeugabwehrkanone) Model 37 guns, were deployed near Airan France – one about one kilometer directly south of Airan, the other about 2 km southwest of Airan. The nearer one was the 3rd Battery of the Flak-Sturm-Regiment 20 (mot.) of the 16. Flak-Division of the III. Flak-Korps. The farther one was its companion 2nd Battery. Their associated fire control system was set up just outside of Airan on the road to Cesny.

At 1754 on 2 Aug 44 they began firing at a formation of B-17s flying SSE at 6700m (approx. 22000ft) at 104m/sec (approx. 233mph). At their closest approach to the nearest battery, the B-17s were at a slant range of 8400m to Battery 2 and 9200m to Battery 3. The batteries fired 39 rounds apiece during the two minutes that the B-17 formation was within range. At 1755, one B-17 was hit, fell out of the formation to the left of the flight path, turned right under the formation and crashed due East of Airan. That B-17 was the ‘I’ll Get By’.

The action was duly reported by (signature unreadable), Oberleutnant u. Ord Offz (1st Lieutenant and Administrative Officer), with maps drawn by Zeichner Obergefreiter (Artist Lance Corporal) Putz.

What did I get wrong?

JRW1944
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by JRW1944 » 22 Oct 2014 01:04

Can't upload the two reports -- too big. If you want to see them send me an email address

Sam Wren
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Sam Wren » 14 Jun 2018 09:44

As mentioned by Larry D on Pg 1 of this thread, III. Flakkorps is quite well-represented in the Ultra decrypts found in the HW 5 files at the UK National Archives. There are usually at least a few communications from III. Flakkorps per day that were intercepted and decrypted, including an almost daily status report from III. Flakkorps as well as references to ammo distribution centers and, during the latter stages of the Normandy campaign, the units of 13. Flakdivision attached to it for the defense of the Seine crossings.

Richard Anderson
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Richard Anderson » 14 Jun 2018 17:46

Sam Wren wrote:As mentioned by Larry D on Pg 1 of this thread, III. Flakkorps is quite well-represented in the Ultra decrypts found in the HW 5 files at the UK National Archives. There are usually at least a few communications from III. Flakkorps per day that were intercepted and decrypted, including an almost daily status report from III. Flakkorps as well as references to ammo distribution centers and, during the latter stages of the Normandy campaign, the units of 13. Flakdivision attached to it for the defense of the Seine crossings.
May I have some more please? :D My last trip to Kew was much too long ago and only allowed me to get a taste of the HW 5 files. Now that I'm on a fixed income it will be a while before I can return. :cry:
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Bolobraz
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Bolobraz » 13 Nov 2021 11:35

Gents,

may you excuse my being rude by awakening this old discussion or posting in the wrong place and my poor english.
I'm looking for any historical information about this camo, nominative and regimented Luftwaffe M35 helmet.
By manipulating it, I discovered ink stamps : 9. Batt II./Flakrgt. 22 (9. Batterien II./Flak Regiment. 22) and two names : Kasprowski and Reimann Uffz.

This regiment fought from july 1 1944 to october 1 1944 in Normandy, then in december 1944 under III. Flak-Korps.

Could you help me finding these soldier's stories out in any way?

Thanks!

Mat

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