The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

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Larry D.
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Larry D. » 12 Jun 2011 13:46

A study of the Feldpostnummern for gem.Flak-Abt. 266 (v) reveals that it remained intact throughout the Normandy campaign, the retreat and right through to the end of the war. No batteries were disbanded, swapped for other batteries or otherwise changed. This indicates that the entire Abteilung survived in its pre-Normandy organizational form, although with heavy losses no doubt. But none of its components were lost and written off:

Stab/266 (FpN: L 23179)
(6.4.1944-9.11.1944) 24.8.1944 Stab gemischte Flak-Sturm-Abteilung 266 (v),
(10.11.1944-Kriegsende) 5.1.1945 Stab I Flak-Sturm-Regiment 1.

1. Battr./266 (FpN: L 00984)
(24.3.1944-6.11.1944) 24.8.1944 1. Batterie gemischte Flak-Sturm-Abteilung 266 (v),
(7.11.1944-Kriegsende) 27.4.1945 1. Batterie Flak-Sturm-Regiment 1.

2. Battr./266 (FpN: L 50240)
(12.3.1943-7.9.1943) 2. Batterie gemischte Flak-Abteilung 266 (v),
(23.4.1944-24.11.1944) 24.8.1944 2. Batterie gemischte Flak-Sturm-Abteilung 266 (v),
(25.11.1944-8.5.1945) 5.1.1945 2. Batterie Flak-Sturm-Regiment 1.

3. Battr./266 (FpN: L 20614)
(6.4.1944-9.11.1944) 8.4.1944 3. Batterie gemischte Flak-Sturm-Abteilung 266 (v),
(10.11.1944-Kriegsende) 5.1.1945 3. Batterie Flak-Sturm-Regiment 1.

4. Battr./266 (FpN: L 55489)
(12.3.1943-7.9.1943) 4. Batterie gemischte Flak-Abteilung 266 (v),
(23.4.1944-24.11.1944) 24.8.1944 4. Batterie gemischte Flak-Sturm-Abteilung 266 (v),
(25.11.1944-8.5.1945) 5.1.1945 4. Batterie Flak-Sturm-Regiment 1.

5. Battr./266 (FpN: L 19052)
(25.1.1943-31.7.1943) 5. Batterie gemischte Flak-Abteilung 266 (v),
(24.3.1944-6.11.1944) 24.8.1944 5. Batterie gemischte Flak-Sturm-Abteilung 266 (v),
(7.11.1944-Kriegsende) 5.1.1945 5. Batterie Flak-Sturm-Regiment 1.

6. Battr./266 (FpN: L 23806)
(10.2.1943-23.8.1943) 6. Batterie gemischte Flak-Abteilung 266 (v),
(6.4.1944-9.11.1944) 24.8.1944 6. Batterie gemischte Flak-Sturm-Abteilung 266 (v),
(10.11.1944-Kriegsende) 5.1.1945 6. Batterie Sturm-Regiment 1.

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Manuferey
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Manuferey » 13 Jun 2011 00:41

Thanks Larry.

Emmanuel

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by JonS » 13 Jun 2011 23:59

Larry D. wrote:A study of the Feldpostnummern for gem.Flak-Abt. 266 (v) reveals that it remained intact throughout the Normandy campaign, the retreat and right through to the end of the war. No batteries were disbanded, swapped for other batteries or otherwise changed. This indicates that the entire Abteilung survived in its pre-Normandy organizational form, although with heavy losses no doubt. But none of its components were lost and written off
Yeah but if three guys, with nothing but their pistols, and the battery dog managed to walk out of the Cotentin that could be enough of a cadre to 'rebuild' the batteries without having to 'reform' them.

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Larry D. » 14 Jun 2011 00:34

Uh huh.

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by 506thnut » 19 Sep 2011 23:27

Flak Regiment 30 commanded by Oberst. Ernst Hermann in June 1944, elements were said to have been in and arouns Ste. Mere Eglise on 5/6th June 1944. Does anyone know if Hermann was killed, he was awarded the Knights Cross in August 1944. There is a listing on German Wargraves reister of a death on 1.7.44 aged 42 years? Any info on this unit would be most welcome? Thanks

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Larry D. » 20 Sep 2011 12:45

HERRMANN, Ernst. (DOB: 30.08.96 in Frankfurt/Oder). (R). 15.11.38 Maj., appt Kdr. III.(Scheinw.)/Flak-Rgt. 9. 01.11.39 Maj., trf from III./Flak-Rgt. 9 to Stab/Höh.Kdeur.d.Flakart.Schulen. 01.12.39 promo to Obstlt. and appt Kdr. FAS IV (to 07.41?). 04.41 appt Kdr. Flak-Lehr-Rgt. (to 07.41). 03.07.41 appt Kdr. Flak-Rgt. 30 Cherbourg (to c.29.06.44). 01.03.42 promo to Oberst. 18.07.44 awarded Ritterkreuz, largely for his role in the defense of Cherbourg in June 1944. †07.08.45 in US. captivity.

What is it that you want to know about the regiment? A Flak-Regiment was just a Stab of 8 to 12 officers and men that commanded an attached array of independent Flak-Abteilungen. So while the Stab remained in Cherbourg, it may very well have sent an Abteilung or a few Batterien south to the Ste. Mere Eglise area or they may have already been in that area.

L.

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506thnut
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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by 506thnut » 20 Sep 2011 18:55

Hi Larry, thanks for the two updates I'm trying to establish the flak unit, and size of the unit that may have been based in and just outside of Ste Mere Eglise on D-Day? I would also like no know anything of the citation for the award to Hermann. Many thanks - what is the source of the information listed above on Hermann?

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by RichTO90 » 20 Sep 2011 22:13

506thnut wrote:Hi Larry, thanks for the two updates I'm trying to establish the flak unit, and size of the unit that may have been based in and just outside of Ste Mere Eglise on D-Day? I would also like no know anything of the citation for the award to Hermann. Many thanks - what is the source of the information listed above on Hermann?
That may be hard to establish given the condition of Luftwaffe records. Even the units that were under command of Stab/Flak-Regiment 30 (v) are debated. I have:

Gefechtsstand – Cherbourg
s.Flak-Abtl. 653 (v)
le.Flak-Abtl. 835 (v)
le.Flak-Abtl. 931 (v)
le.Flak-Abtl. 996 (v)
gem.Flak-Abtl. 152 (v)
gem.Flak-Abtl. 153 (v)
gem.Flak-Abtl. 5.-6./266 (v)
Flak-Sw.-Abtl. 298 (v)

However, the units covered just about the entire Cotentin; scattered all the way to Caen. One other unit that may have done quite a bit of damage to the incoming airborne serials was Heeresflak, the flak company of 91. Luftlande-Inf.-Div. It appears that it was co-located near the divisional headquarters at the Château de Bernaville at Picauville, due west of Chef-du-Pont and Ste-Mere-Eglise, which placed it right in the path of the paratroopers as their aircraft descended to jump height.

Cheers!
Richard Anderson
Cracking Hitler's Atlantic Wall: the 1st Assault Brigade Royal Engineers on D-Day
Stackpole Books, 2009.

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Larry D. » 21 Sep 2011 00:03

I'm trying to establish the flak unit, and size of the unit that may have been based in and just outside of Ste Mere Eglise on D-Day? I would also like no know anything of the citation for the award to Hermann. Many thanks - what is the source of the information listed above on Hermann?
As RichTO90 implied, Almost all of the Luftwaffe's wartime records were destroyed either in Allied bombings in and around the Berlin area in 1944-45 or intentionally on the orders of the Reichsmarschall during the first week of May 1945 - in all, some 96% of them. You can confirm this in many hundreds of threads on various web sites. You can also search for an excellent article by Wulf-Dietrich Noack, “Die Schließung von Überlieferungslücken am Beispiel des Schriftgutes der Luftwaffe 1933-1945” that appeared in the anthology, Heinz Boberach and Hans Booms (eds.), Aus der Arbeit des Bundesarchives: Beiträge zum Archivwesen, zur Quellenkunde und Zeitgeschichte, Schriften des Bundesarchivs Nr. 25, Boppard am Rhein: Harald Boldt Verlag, 1977. ISBN 3 7646 1690 3. Wulf-Dietrich Noack was born in 1914 and in 1977 held the rank of Archivoberrat (senior archive official) in the Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv, Freiburg, where he had been on the staff since 1966. It's all there.

As for Oberst Herrmann, my colleague and I have a data base of 36,000 Luftwaffe officers, virtually all that there were who had been promoted to Hauptmann or higher by by war's end, and their known assignment and other details. We began working on the data base 27 years ago. An estimated 98% of the information comes from their Personalakten, Karteikarten and Luftwaffenpersonalamt Personalveränderungen der Luftwaffe. There are an average of 12 separate entries for each individual for a grand total of (36,000 x 12) 432,000 entries. Consequently, it was not practical to footnote each entry with a source citation. If you are a relative of Oberst Herrmann or you can convince the staff at BA-MA Freiburg that you have a professional need, they would probably grant you access to his personnel records. But whatever you do, don't tell them that you are an "enthusiast", wargamer, re-enactor or a militaria collector because they take a dim view of that crowd when it comes to access to personnel records. You have to be credentialed.

Good luck!

Larry

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by WAKEN » 21 Sep 2011 11:35

'Atlantikwall - Mythe ou Realite' gives some information on flak units:

5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Carpiquet airfield north
5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Carpiquet airfield south
5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Les Crasieres
5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - St Manvieu Norrey east

I'm a relative newcomer to research too. Tom Peters in particular has been very kind in forwarding lots of material to me. My thanks to everyone who has been kind enough to respond to my various questions over recent years. I have also commissioned some Freiburg archives research by a gentleman called Benjamin Haas. Unfortunately I don't have enough money to fund more than a couple of hours work, so I will always be a relative amateur compared to some of the 'experten' who post here!

Regards,

Neil

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by WAKEN » 21 Sep 2011 11:49

Ooops I missed an entry:

5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Carpiquet airfield northwest

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by Larry D. » 21 Sep 2011 19:40

A few comments to the above list of Flak units provided by RichTO90:

schw.Flak-Abt. 653(o) was at Cherbourg-Valognes on 26 Apr 44. On 7 June it was ordered south to Ste-Mere-Eglise for attachment to the Army. This is from an ULTRA intercept.

gem.Flak-Abt. 153(v) on 10 May 1944 was at Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte, astride the western rail line 16 km west of Ste-Mere-Eglise. This too is from ULTRA. Comment: being so close, it could very easily have sent one or more of its batteries to Ste-Mere-Eglise in the early morning hours of 6 June after to drops started and the alarm was sounded.

The other Abteilungen listed show nothing that would place them or any of their batteries near Ste-Mere-Eglise on 6 June.

Larry

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by WAKEN » 21 Sep 2011 20:10

Thanks for those details Larry. I was aware that those units were in 30 Flak Regiment and in the Cherbourg area but did not have any further details on their deployment.

Regards,

Neil

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by John Hilly » 22 Sep 2011 08:35

WAKEN wrote:5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Carpiquet airfield north
5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Carpiquet airfield south
5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Les Crasieres
5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - St Manvieu Norrey east
Are you sure that one battery - 5th - could have had 12 guns + 5./le.Flak 266 - 3 x 2cm Flak - Carpiquet airfield northwest?
Or is there some confusion in the abbreviations? :?

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"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: The actual organization of III. Flak-Korps Normandy

Post by WAKEN » 22 Sep 2011 11:04

Juha-Pekka,

I just extracted the information from the book 'Atlantikwall - Mythe ou Realite', so I can't comment any further really.

Cheers

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