Panzertruppe Grossdeutschland & Panzer Regiment GD

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
Bob_Mackenzie
Member
Posts: 518
Joined: 22 Nov 2003 11:02
Location: UK

Panzertruppe Grossdeutschland & Panzer Regiment GD

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 01 Mar 2007 13:16

Gents

Trying to get my head aroind the organisation and evolution of this unit from its introduction in May 1942 to the time of the Kursk Battles.

I'm confused as sources seem to contradict each other

"God Honor & Fatherland" and http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/ seem to indicate that the unit had many PzKfw-III, But Jentz shows very few PzKfw-III

Can anyone help?

Cheers

Bob

User avatar
Wolfkin
Member
Posts: 773
Joined: 25 May 2002 18:23
Location: Calgary,AB,Canada

Post by Wolfkin » 02 Mar 2007 01:26

Hello!

I would go with Jentz on this one. Panzer Regiment Grossdeutschland was designed with Three Mittlere Panzer Kompanien in each Panzer Abteilung. There were only two Panzer Regiments at this time that were organized like this and they were Panzer Regiment Grossdeutschland and Panzer Regiment Leibstandarte. Both were organized with Three Mittlere Panzer Kompanien in each Panzer Abteilung plus, of course, the Schwere Panzer Kompanie. The only PzKpfw III would be the PzBef and the PzKpfw III in the Schwere Panzer Kompanie. I have seen many sources with the incorrect organization so I understand how one would get confused. Most Panzer Regiments had Two Leichte Panzer Kompanien and One Mittlere Panzer Kompanien but not Grossdeutschland and Leibstandarte. I hope this helps!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

Panzeralex
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: 11 Jan 2004 16:36
Location: Moscow

Post by Panzeralex » 02 Mar 2007 06:20

Hi
According Gen.Qu. Panzer Lage on 30.06.43 and Gep.Kfz.-Bestandmeldung GD on 1.7.43 in GD were:
1 combat-ready Pz III kz,
14 combat-ready Pz. III Flam.,
2 combat-ready Pz. III 7.5 cm,
18 combat-ready Pz. III lg and 2 in short-term repair Pz. III lg,
6 combat-ready Beob.Pz. III and 1 in short-term-repair Beob.Pz.III and 2 in long-term repair Beob.Pz. III,
8 Bef.Pz. III (3 Sd.Kfz. 267, 1 with 5 cm Kw.K. L/42, 4 with 5 cm Kw.K. L/60).

best regards,
Panzeralex

User avatar
Wolfkin
Member
Posts: 773
Joined: 25 May 2002 18:23
Location: Calgary,AB,Canada

Post by Wolfkin » 03 Mar 2007 10:06

Hello!

In response to the inquiry as to the composition of the Panzer element of Grossdeutschland from May 1942 to July 1943, I give the following:

Panzer Abteilung Grossdeutschland composition when formed in July 1942:

Three Mittlere Panzer Kompanien

12 PzKpfw II, 2 PzKpfw III (5Kz), 18 PzKpfw IV (Kz), 12 PzKpfw IV (lg), 1 PzBef

In March 1943 the newly-formed II./Panzerregiment Grossdeutschland is formed and sent to the front to join the old Panzer Abteilung Grossdeutschland which is now re-named I./Panzerregiment Grossdeutschland, the composition of II./Panzerregiment Grossdeutschland is:

Three Mittlere Panzer Kompanien and one Schwere Panzer Kompanie

10 PzKpfw III (lg), 42 PzKpfw IV (lg), 9 PzKpfw VI, 6 PzBef, 28 Flammpz

In July 1943 the Panzerregiment Grossdeutschland is now consolidated as Six Mittlere Panzer Kompanien and One Schwere Panzer Kompanie in Two Panzer Abteilung:

4 PzKpfw II, 1 PzKpfw III (kz), 20 PzKpfw III (lg), 2 PzKpfw III (7.5), 5 PzKpfw IV (kz), 63 PzKpfw IV (lg), 15 PzKpfw VI, 8 PzBef, 14 Flammpz

I hope this helps!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

Bob_Mackenzie
Member
Posts: 518
Joined: 22 Nov 2003 11:02
Location: UK

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 04 Mar 2007 16:47

Thanks for your help gents :)

User avatar
sdacbob
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 11:21
Location: Kentucky

Post by sdacbob » 10 Mar 2007 23:47

I'm not sure about your organization of the Leibstandarte. According to Lehmann's "The Leibstandarte", Vol III, the weeks between Jun 7-Jun 12 1943 the former I Battalion, Pz Reg LAH was transferred over to the newly forming HJ Division leaving just the II Battalion for the Kursk offensive. He states during this period (May 30 to Jun 22) the Panzer Regiment's 8th Company was formed. the other companies were numbered 5, 6, and 7. The 13th "Tiger" company was separate under the Regiment. Prior to that time they had the 3 company organization.
Wolfkin wrote:Hello!

I There were only two Panzer Regiments at this time that were organized like this and they were Panzer Regiment Grossdeutschland and Panzer Regiment Leibstandarte. Both were organized with Three Mittlere Panzer Kompanien in each Panzer Abteilung plus, of course, the Schwere Panzer Kompanie. The only PzKpfw III would be the PzBef and the PzKpfw III in the Schwere Panzer Kompanie. I have seen many sources with the incorrect organization so I understand how one would get confused. Most Panzer Regiments had Two Leichte Panzer Kompanien and One Mittlere Panzer Kompanien but not Grossdeutschland and Leibstandarte. I hope this helps!

Cheers,

Wolfkin

User avatar
Wolfkin
Member
Posts: 773
Joined: 25 May 2002 18:23
Location: Calgary,AB,Canada

Post by Wolfkin » 11 Mar 2007 04:46

Hello sdacbob!

Yes, you are correct, the II./SS Panzer Regiment Leibstandarte was organized with the 5, 6, 7 and 8th Panzerkompanien after the Kharkov battles BUT for Kursk the 8th Panzerkompanie was not operational and they only operated with the 5, 6 and 7th Panzerkompanien plus the 13th Tiger Kompanie. So, technically the Panzer Abteilung was still a Three Kompanie one. It says this on page 450 of The Leibstandarte Volume III. The 8th Panzerkompanie would not see action until November 1943 when Panzerregiment Leibstandarte returned to the Ostfront with a Four Kompanie Panther Abteilung and a Four Kompanie PzKpfw IV Abteilung. But the original question was for the time from May 1942 until the Kursk battles.

Cheers,

Wolfkin

User avatar
sdacbob
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 11:21
Location: Kentucky

Post by sdacbob » 18 Mar 2007 19:22

My mistake, I stand corrected.

User avatar
Wolfkin
Member
Posts: 773
Joined: 25 May 2002 18:23
Location: Calgary,AB,Canada

Post by Wolfkin » 18 Mar 2007 20:57

No worries sdacbob! Sometimes some sources are not exactly clear on one page and then you find more details a few pages further on. I have found this very often.

Cheers,

Wolfkin

irek6969
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: 06 May 2008 20:14

Re: Panzertruppe Grossdeutschland & Panzer Regiment GD

Post by irek6969 » 18 Mar 2019 23:45

Hello,
I am looking for Schwere commanders Panzer-Abteilung Großdeutschland.
Greetings

User avatar
hucks216
Member
Posts: 1774
Joined: 20 Jan 2007 22:49
Location: England

Re: Panzertruppe Grossdeutschland & Panzer Regiment GD

Post by hucks216 » 19 Mar 2019 11:32

irek6969 wrote:
18 Mar 2019 23:45
Hello,
I am looking for Schwere commanders Panzer-Abteilung Großdeutschland.
Greetings
I don't think it is complete and dates might need correcting/confirming, but:

Major Herbert Gomille - Abteilungkommandeur May 1943
Oberstleutnant Georg Baumunk - Abteilungkommandeur 1944 (dates unknown but wounded July 1944 (as stated by Jung))
Hauptmann Bock - Abteilungkommandeur 27th July 1944 to at least January 1945
Hauptmann Friedrich Stadler - Abteilungführer 16th January 1945 to at least 16th March 1945

(Sources: various books (including Spaeter & Jung), files and award documentation)

FORBIN Yves
Member
Posts: 214
Joined: 23 Aug 2017 10:57
Location: FRANCE

Re:

Post by FORBIN Yves » 06 Oct 2021 11:44

Wolfkin wrote:
03 Mar 2007 10:06
Hello!

In response to the inquiry as to the composition of the Panzer element of Grossdeutschland from May 1942 to July 1943, I give the following:

Panzer Abteilung Grossdeutschland composition when formed in July 1942:

Three Mittlere Panzer Kompanien

12 PzKpfw II, 2 PzKpfw III (5Kz), 18 PzKpfw IV (Kz), 12 PzKpfw IV (lg), 1 PzBef

In March 1943 the newly-formed II./Panzerregiment Grossdeutschland is formed and sent to the front to join the old Panzer Abteilung Grossdeutschland which is now re-named I./Panzerregiment Grossdeutschland, the composition of II./Panzerregiment Grossdeutschland is:

Three Mittlere Panzer Kompanien and one Schwere Panzer Kompanie

10 PzKpfw III (lg), 42 PzKpfw IV (lg), 9 PzKpfw VI, 6 PzBef, 28 Flammpz

In July 1943 the Panzerregiment Grossdeutschland is now consolidated as Six Mittlere Panzer Kompanien and One Schwere Panzer Kompanie in Two Panzer Abteilung:

4 PzKpfw II, 1 PzKpfw III (kz), 20 PzKpfw III (lg), 2 PzKpfw III (7.5), 5 PzKpfw IV (kz), 63 PzKpfw IV (lg), 15 PzKpfw VI, 8 PzBef, 14 Flammpz

I hope this helps!

Cheers,

Wolfkin
I search number of tanks and Stug for this units end 1942 and early 1943 and i use this good post i have some numbers for 1943 in this book " Tank Warfare on the Eastern Front, 1943–1945, Red Steamroller " but in part if some can help for more

Indeed initialy only one Panzer Bn after re designated I/PzRgt GD arrive end january 1943 have 14 Panzer operationnals ( 6 Pz IV (lg), 3 Pz III variant ? and 5 other ) plus some Stug if some know the total with no ops tanks also for Stugs ?

After about 20 february II/PzRgt GD arrive to Poltava full with 42 Pz IV (lg), 10 Pz III (lg) and 28 Flamm Pz III plus Schwere Panzer Kompanie with 9 Tiger but to this date how many tanks for I//PzRGT GD and Stug Bn ?

Also if some have the total of Stug end november 1942 when start Operation Mars ?
For tank Bn i have 30 tanks : 12 Pz IV 75(lg), 7 Pz IV (kz), 1 Pz III (kz), 7 Pz II and 3 PzBef

Thank you :)

Return to “Heer, Waffen-SS & Fallschirmjäger”