missing first names in R906

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Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 30 Jun 2022 21:35

Pls. push Eisl + Dula above
I just found 2 more (2 Majore), has somebody their first names (+ possibly some assignments in WW 2) ?
Maj.(1.3.43) Engel (aus IR.106)
Hptm.(1.9.40) Maj.(1.7.44) Engelbrecht (aus IR.82)
Thanks + rgds.

Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 03 Jul 2022 12:04

Pls. push above. Thanks
I have 2 more :
Hptm.(1.3.43) Finck (aus GJR.139), first name ?
Otl.(1.9.43) Frimmel (WBK. Wien I), first name ? Some assignments in WW 2 ?
Frimmels Karteikarte has die RDA-Nr. (37) whilst the DAL 5.44 has (47). Which number is correct ?
Thanks + rgds.

Dave Danner
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Dave Danner » 03 Jul 2022 21:19

Frimmel is Franz, *24.08.1892.

01.10.1939 Hauptmann
01.10.1940 Major

Maybe our Austria specialists have more.

Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 04 Jul 2022 13:16

Thanks Dave
But DAL 5.42 has him as Maj. m. RDA. 1.9.40 (122)
Where do I find the first names of Hptlten., in Invenio or where else ?
I just found 2 more :
Hptm.(1.4.42) Gädeke (aus IR.130), first name ?
Hptm.(1.2.43) Gassner (aus GJR.85), first name ?
(so Gassner from 2 Karteikarten, but from DAL as Gaßner, what is correct ?)
P.S.: can You reply to my question about von Watzdorf ? Thanks

Dave Danner
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Dave Danner » 04 Jul 2022 17:45

For junior officers, there aren't a lot of good sources. Invenio, award lists if they received high awards, casualty lists if they were killed, etc. Common names are a problem, though, as you know.

As we've noted before, Germans are terribly inconsistent on the ss/ß usage. Hell, since I do not follow the latest official spelling reforms, I am not consistent with what is taught in German schools today.

Dave Danner
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Dave Danner » 04 Jul 2022 18:04

Gaßner is the most likely spelling, but as an example of the inconsistency, here are the Heer files in Invenio:

PERS 6/29669 - Gassner, Ernst, *08.09.1895, Hauptmann d.R.
PERS 6/36799 - Gassner, Friedrich, *07.08.1894, Major d.R.
PERS 6/43748 - Gassner, Martin, *08.09.1863, Oberst [†1931]
PERS 6/271545 - Gaßner, Friedrich, *14.05.1917, Major
PERS 6/271546 - Gaßner, Herbert, *13.06.1923, ohne Dienstgrad
PERS 6/271547 - Gaßner, Werner, *20.01.1924, ohne Dienstgrad

Both Ernst and his father Martin were actually Gaßner.

Among Luftwaffe files there are "PERS 6/189910 Gaßner, Friedrich, geb. 18.8.1895" and "PERS 6/235894 Gassner, Friedrich, geb. 18.8.1895", who are the same person.

Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 06 Jul 2022 19:56

Thanks Dave
I found a few more :
1a) Hptm.(1.12.42) Gerlach (aus IR.131)
1b) Hptm. dR.(1.2.44) in one K.Karte as Grönlund in another K.Karte as Groenlund, what is correct ?
2) Maj.(1.1.42) Groth (aus IR.34), first name ?
3) I also found an Otl. Gruhl (no RDA, no Fr.Tr.Teil)
Then I saw that in DAL S 5.44 there are 2 Otle. Gruhl
Has somebody their first names and their DLBahnen (or some assignments in WW 2) ?
Many thanks in advance

Dave Danner
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Dave Danner » 06 Jul 2022 20:58

There were indeed two Oberstleutnants Gruhl. Luckily, they are easy to keep separate.

One was Hermann, born in 1895. The other was Hermann, born in 1895. Hermann had a file in the archives, but Hermann didn't, as he died in 1944. However, there were a few of Hermann's documents in Hermann's file.

I can add a few details later when I get a chance. I don't have anything on the others.

Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 07 Jul 2022 10:34

Thanks Dave
Both as "Hermann" and both "born in 1895" ??
DAL reads :
1) aus WBK. Brieg (Bez. Breslau) Art.Otl. RDA. 1.3.44
2) aus WBK. Stendal Inf.Otl. RDA. 1.3.43
For which one do You have some details and which one died in 1944 ?
The only data present in the Karteikarte of one of them (who ?) is : "Btl.Fhr.Lehrg. Angers"
Friendly, Rossano

Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 09 Jul 2022 12:24

Hello, I found a few more :
1) Maj. dR. von Günther (no RDA., no Fr.Tr.Teil), first name ?
2) Maj. dR. Heller (no RDA., Fr.Tr.Teil probably WEI. Ulm), first name ?
3) Maj. Hagemann (2 DALs + 1 Div.Liste as Fritz, whilst 1 PV., + 1 K.Karte, + 1 Korpsliste as Friedrich, what is officially correct or shall I register him as „Friedrich (Fritz)“
4) Hptm. dR.(1.8.44) Hänle?Haenle Hermann, geb. 9.10.17
(I have 2 Karteikarten of him but one reads Hänle and one Haenle, what is officially correct ?)
Thanks for any help

Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 14 Jul 2022 13:15

Hello
I understand that Hauptleute are difficult to investigate, but in this case I found a Res.Offz. who won the DKiG. But strangely I couldn´t locate him among the Kochs there, maybe You can ?
Other data : Hptm. dR.(1.6.42) Koch, born 1901, aus WBK. Landshut
Thanks

Dave Danner
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Dave Danner » 14 Jul 2022 21:27

The only Maj.d.R. Günther I found was Wilhelm Konstantin von Günther, *26.04.1899 in München, Herr auf Ernestgrün und Ottengrün.

There was a former Prussian Lt.d.R. Rudolf von Günther, *10.01.1895. I have no idea if he was still around in World War II or what role he might have had.

Names like Heller and Koch are far too common. There were at least two dozen Lts. Heller in World War I who could have been reserve officers in World War II.

I have not found any official sources for Hermann Hänle, but there were 86 entries for "Hänle" in the World War I casualty lists and only one for "Haenle", so Hänle seems like the likelier spelling.

Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 15 Jul 2022 13:43

Thanks again Dave
OK, probably Wilhelm and probably Hänle......
I knew that Koch was a hard nut but I hoped he could be found somehow among the Kochs who received the Dt.Kr.i.G., too bad.........
Friendly, Rossano

Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 19 Jul 2022 17:13

Nobody for above ?
Now I found an act. officer (Hptm./Maj.)
In a K.Karte + in DAL 1943 + 1944 as Kschicho
In PV. + in a K.Karte + in Invenio as Kschischo
So, is maybe Kschischo correct ?

Rossano
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Re: missing first names in R906

Post by Rossano » 22 Jul 2022 10:44

Fortunately I could find in Invenio some of the missing first names in this roll BUT in most cases the solutions are difficult to interpret because Invenio never underlines the official one but gives all names like here for example : Lüpke Hans Ulrich Ernst Gustav
So, is his main first name Hans or Hans Ulrich or what ?

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