German High Commanders of WW2

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by askropp and Frech.
Rossano
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 10 Apr 2021 13:54

Thanks John
BUT in the doc. extract above v.Schobert was on "19.4" still (or again ?) Führer i.V. d. AOK.16.
So who was his Vertreter by then ? Maybe still Heinrici or who ?
Rgds., Rossano

histan
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by histan » 10 Apr 2021 14:21

Von Schobert was on sick leave from 31.01.1940 to 12.02.1940
Heinrici was in the FR from 12.02.1940 with two periods of leave until taking over at XII AK.

Rossano
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 10 Apr 2021 14:55

Thanks John
it still remains open :
1) v.Schobert was on 19.4.40 Führer i.V. AOK.16, from/to when ?
2) who stood in for him in april 40 at the VII.AK ?
Friendly, Rossano

Halfdan S.
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by Halfdan S. » 18 Feb 2022 22:42

askropp wrote:
10 Apr 2019 18:25
15. Armee
25.08.1944 – 13.04.1945 General der Infanterie Gustav-Adolf von Zangen (bis 30.01.1945 mFb)
Did von Zangen fall into American captivity on April 13th?

Cheers
Halfdan S.

Halfdan S.
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by Halfdan S. » 18 Feb 2022 23:47

askropp wrote:
18 Apr 2019 10:26
16. Armee
10.03.1945 – 13.03.1945 General der Infanterie Ernst-Anton von Krosigk (mstFb)
13.03.1945 – 05.04.1945 General der Infanterie Carl Hilpert
06.04.1945 – 10.04.1945 General der Infanterie Ernst-Anton von Krosigk (mFb)
10.04.1945 – 08.05.1945 General der Gebirgstruppe Friedrich Volckamer von Kirchensittenbach (mFb)
Somethings wrong here - von Krosigk fell in March 1945 though there are different dates circulating.

Regards
Halfdan S.

Rossano
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 19 Feb 2022 09:28

"march 45" is wrong !

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askropp
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 19 Feb 2022 14:34

Halfdan S. wrote:
18 Feb 2022 22:42
askropp wrote:
10 Apr 2019 18:25
15. Armee
25.08.1944 – 13.04.1945 General der Infanterie Gustav-Adolf von Zangen (bis 30.01.1945 mFb)
Did von Zangen fall into American captivity on April 13th?

Cheers
Halfdan S.
He was for sure captured in the Ruhrkessel, but I can't remember the source for the 13th.
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.

Rossano
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 19 Feb 2022 14:52

Hello
As far as I know the 15.Armee surrendered (incl. his OB.) on 17.4
Rgds.

histan
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by histan » 22 Feb 2022 03:00

Rossano is correct.

According to FMS Study B-849 he ordered the cessation of hostilities on 15.04.1945 and according to FMS Study B-848 "On 17 April he was taken prisoner by British forces at Arnsberg, Westphalia."

Regards

John

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askropp
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 22 Feb 2022 10:54

Hmmm ... 13 April seems indeed to be a bit early, but my sources say Arnsberg had already been taken on 12 April by US (not british) forces. If 17 April (also the date given for Harpe) is correct, the place seems to be in question. I really would like to know where 13 April is from, it is even written in black in my list (not in blue, the color I use for unconfirmed info).

PS: One source giving 13 April is Russell Weigley, Eisenhower's Lieutenants:
"General von Zangen of the Fifteenth Army had already surrendered to the 7th Armored Division on April 13."

The date is also used in several books of the Osprey series by Steven Zaloga.
And finally, the 1995 volume of the journal Army mentions 13 April in its "WW2 remembered" series.

If correct, I assume the divisional history of 7th Armored Division or contemporary allied newspapers should also mention the incident.
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.

Rossano
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 22 Feb 2022 15:54

Interesting (and possible) but further sources (among others Frhr. v. Siegler and Tessin too) report that both v. Zangen and his 15. Armee surrendered on 17.4
Also, Hillgrubers + Jacobsens Chronik 1.44 - 5.45 (in KTB d. OKW) reads :
14.4.45 US-Truppen spalten den Ruhrkessel
18.4.45 Widerstand im Ruhrkessel eingestellt

histan
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by histan » 23 Feb 2022 02:26

The After Action Report for 7 Armored Division describes in detail the surrender of LXXX! AK and LIII AK but makes no mention of the capture of von Zangen.

"The LXXXI Corps went to bed after their interrogation, voicing the hope that the remainder of the staff would turn up in the cage during the night, for "they always had breakfast together." As per expectations at approximately 0730 on 13 April, a negotiation was effected between the remaining staff members and an outpost of the 87th Cav. Rcn. Sq. (Mecz). From a woodland hideout streamed a convoy of Opels, Mercedes, and Volkswagons bearing General der Infanterie KOCHLING (three stars), his Chief of Staff, Artillery Commander, G-3, Senior Aide, and a galaxy of orderlies and drivers. The General and his key staff members were accorded a hasty evacuation to higher headquarters."

"The size of this mass surrender can be better appreciated by looking at the total figures of prisoners taken. For the period 152400 to 162400, the Seventh processed 20,303 German prisoners of war. Known units that surrendered intact to the division are: 116th Panzer Division, 180th Infantry Division, 190th Infantry Division and remnants of the 9th Panzer Division. A number of other AA, Engineer, Artillery, TD, replacement training, and service formations located in the Corps area turned themselves in. There were four General officers, all with field commands, Major General FRITZ BAYERLEIN, CG, LIII Corps; Major General HAMMER, CG, 190th Infantry Division; Brigadier General KLOSTERKEMPER, CG, 180th Infantry Division and Brigadier General VON WALDENBURG, CG, 116th Panzer Division. In addition, the CO of the remains of the 9th Panzer Division, Colonel ZOLLEN KOPF, was included in the take. "

Given this degree of detail, it is unlikely that they would not mention the capture of the commander of an Army.

Regards

John

Rossano
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 23 Feb 2022 09:27

Hello,
I don' t understand what the 7.PD has to do with the 15.Armee.
In the Kriegsglied. 12.4.45 the 7.PD was under Korps Hela of AOK Ostpreußen (AOK.2)
In the same KG the LIII.AK was under A.A. v.Lüttwitz (XXXXVII.PzK.), and not under AOK 15
Whilst the LXXXI.AK was one (the weaker/smaller) of the 2 Korps under AOK 15
Rgds.

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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 23 Feb 2022 12:36

Rossano, please, you make me crazy! Do us a favor and read the posts carefully and thoroughly. This is the second misunderstanding in only 24 hours. No one was talking of 7. Panzerdivision, but of 7th Armored Division!

As for Zangen, I agree with John he would have been mentioned, but someone actually captured him, so he must appear in the reports of another unit. After all, he was the biggest game in the pocket after Harpe (Model having killed himself).
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.

Rossano
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 23 Feb 2022 14:02

This time I give You full right to complain, sorry for this new stupid misunderstanding (but pls. take it easy....)

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