Nazi Hi-Tech AirCrafts

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
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Kurt_Steiner
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Post by Kurt_Steiner » 22 Dec 2004 11:47

Is it just me, or someone is a bit off topic? :lol:

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Christian W.
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Post by Christian W. » 22 Dec 2004 12:09

Please edit:

German Hi-Tech AirCrafts sounds better than Nazi Hi-Tech AirCrafts.

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PPoS
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Post by PPoS » 22 Dec 2004 12:53

The truth is that the germans had very advanced airplane projects, but few ever left the drawing board. They were pretty far from building a transatlantic bomber ala "Amerika Projektil". But a few more months and as an american Airforce inspection in Germany said: "If the germans could have prolonged the war for a few months, we would have met a whole new type of airfleet."

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Christian W.
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Post by Christian W. » 22 Dec 2004 13:25

few ever left the drawing board

:?

What are you talking about? Many jet planes came from factories before war ended.

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Y Ddraig Goch
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Post by Y Ddraig Goch » 22 Dec 2004 13:29

Christian W. wrote: What are you talking about? Many jet planes came from factories before war ended.
Not when compared to how many were designed

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PPoS
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Post by PPoS » 22 Dec 2004 14:48

Yeah, that's right.. Look at http://www.luft46.com and you'll see that the majority of the airplane projects never left the drawingboard.

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Post by Tony Williams » 22 Dec 2004 14:56

ohrdruf wrote:Khazmodan
An indication of the deliberate understatement of German progress in the aeronautics field is obvious from a casual survey of observations and statements made in the immediate postwar period by highly placed British and American Government sources to the effect that Germany "would have won the war through aerial developments alone if they could have held out another six months". If you would like me to provide the quotes I will do so. Such statements make sense of the fact that Germany did attempt to hold out that extra six months for what appears to have been, on the basis of the knowledge the Allies are prepared to let us have, no good purpose.
If they said they were guilty of hype - or had fallen for the German hype. The war was won on the ground, primarily by millions of Russian soldiers with tens of thousands of tanks and artillery pieces. It doesn't matter how super your bomber is, it isn't going to be able to do much about that. If it flies fast and high, it will be unable to hit such point targets. If it flies low and slow, the AA will get it.

The Germans already used much more impressive kit than a fast bomber anyway - thousands of V-1s and V-2s with one-ton warheads were launched against London and other targets. The net result? A bit more rubble, some more casualties: effect on the outcome of the war = nil.

The Germans were good at coming up with such wonderful 'war-winning' ideas. It was very much in their scientists' interests to make such claims, because unless their work was thought to be useful they risked ending up on the Eastern Front clutching a rifle. So you get such wastes of time as the V-3 long-range artillery piece for bombarding London. Even if it had worked, the result would have been - a bit more rubble, a few more casualties: effect on the war = nil.

After the war there was a huge Allied operation to sort through the rubble and interrogate any German scientists. Anything useful discovered there was promptly snapped up and used - so the V-2 rockets and von Braun were shipped across to the USA, the Russians secured their axial flow jets etc. Nothing was ignored or hidden.

The Germans in general and Hitler in particular kept deluding themselves until the end that some wonderful new invention could still win the war. There really isn't any excuse for people to still believe such nonsense today. There is only one thing which might have won the war for Germany at such a late stage: the atomic bomb (or rather, lots of atomic bombs), which they were a long way from getting.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
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Christian W.
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Post by Christian W. » 22 Dec 2004 15:07

Im well aware of that, but that was not my point. You almost gave the image that no jet plane ever came from factory. :)

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Post by ohrdruf » 22 Dec 2004 19:10

Tony Williams

I notice that you do not request to see the quotes made by Sir Roy Feddon, Scientific Adviser to the UK Ministry of Aircraft Production, Lt-General Donald Putt, Deputy Chief, USAF Military Intelligence and the US Secretary of State Forrestal. These gentlemen go by the documents, not hype. You may find it convenient to sidestep these awkward interpolations by simply ignoring them, but I am afraid it rather proves your lack of historical method.

With the greatest respect, simply because you run a website does not make you an historian with an opinion which carries some weight. What you state is simply the orthodox argument, or opiate, for the dupes of Western Propaganda. The fact that the gentlemen of note referred to in the opening paragraph made a certain statement in common indicates that they each knew something which it was decided subsequently at the highest level to keep from us. That is common sense to me if not to yourself.

There are aspects in this thread which are best not argued in open forum but I will respond to an approach from anyone through PM.

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Post by Tony Williams » 23 Dec 2004 02:24

Ohrdruf,

I wasn't expressing opinions, just pointing out some facts and realities, however inconvenient they may be for your beliefs. I note that you have not tried to answer any of the points I have made.

However, I have learned in the past that people with odd beliefs are remarkably resistant to facts and logical arguments, so it really isn't worth pursuing the debate.

TW

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Post by ohrdruf » 23 Dec 2004 14:55

Tony Williams


One cannot "pursue a debate" if the opinions of persons of high standing in British and US Government and military circles are dismissed as "hype". This is the easy way out for the poor historian. The gifted man always leaves the gate open for debate to develop.


The point you made is, correctly, that no matter how advanced the aircraft, it could have no impression on events unless every aircraft of the fleet carried a bomb of tremendous destructive effect. You mentioned atomic weapons but there is no evidence that Germany had made any steps in this direction by 1945. Yet Sir Roy Feddon in particular specified in his statement that the Germans would have won the war by a change in "air warfare".


Were the Germans within six months of mass producing bombs of terrific destructive effect?


The great historian Sir Basil Liddell Hart described a devastating "whirlwind bomb" in production in Germany which killed using certain meteorological effects.
Sir William Stevenson, head of the British Security Coordination espionage network, stated that in late 1944 Germany was working "all out" on "bombs of terrific destructive effect" capable of mass production. A British BIOS intelligence report described tests of a bomb at Berlin Kummersdorf in late 1944 in which the addition of a catalyst substance vastly magnified the effects of a conventional explosive.
And a DDR investigation at Arnstadt in the former Soviet Zone took depositions from persons involved at Ohrdruf testing ground of two tests there in March 1945 of an explosive of "fantastic destructive power for its size with extraordinary side-effects."
Within 18 months of the war's end, Sir Roy Feddon, Lt-Gen Putt and the US Secretary of State, none of whom were interested in raising alarm amongst their respective peoples, all stated that Germany came within six months of victory.
And Tony Williams said that this could only have been possible with bombs of terrific destructive effect.


And then, as we know, it transpired that Hitler's miracle bombs had been not just "hype", but "a bluff".


The DDR Arnstadt report describes the installations at Ohrdruf necessary to make the catalyst for the miracle bomb. Since the laboratory equipment known as the "Bell" operated underground, all that could be seen from the surface was a couple of buildings and some piping in the shape of a cross.
The "Bell" was mobile: Argentine intelligence documents report the arrival in late April 1945 of a German aircraft which unloaded a scientific device known as the "Bell" at Gualeguay, after which it was transported to Bariloche. The Argentinians had no idea what the "Bell" was for, only that it was of tremendous military importance to their burgeoning Nazi immigrant scientific population.


Irak's development of weaponry apparently followed German ideas in rocketry, nerve gases and the V-3 HPG. At the end of the 1980s, the primary enemy of Nazism, Soviet Bolshevism, came to an end, and now the aims of Islam fundamentalism and National Socialism were common to both: the destruction of the Jews, the United States and Britain in a Holy War.


In 2001, the year when you received your declaration of war, History repeated itself when for the second time in less than a century there came into existence a miracle weapon of mass destruction incapable of being described in words and which, after a brief period of existence, once again ceased to exist.


Now I am out on a limb here, but I cannot shake off this feeling that Hitler's miracle weapon was being redeveloped in Irak, and the current hullabaloo was all about stopping this thing being mass produced and used against the West by Islam. Undoubtedly the machinery now resides in a neighbouring country where the United States and its friend fear to tread. The connections between esoteric Islam, and Nazism from its earliest foundations, have been remarked upon frequently in these columns. In due course, perhaps within a couple of years, either from terrorist attack or a full scale war, I feel sure that the West will at last experience at first hand Hitler's Miracle Bomb That Never Was - Twice Over.

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Post by Oberst_Emann » 24 Dec 2004 06:10

What did this "Bell" look like? A reactor of some kind?

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Y Ddraig Goch
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Post by Y Ddraig Goch » 24 Dec 2004 08:36

ohrdruf

so you are saying that the Nazis closley collaborated with Iraq, who i must say had no capability then, to develop a new weapon?

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Post by ohrdruf » 24 Dec 2004 14:37

Madcap

It is a suggestion that such cooperation might exist based on the fact that Irak military developments over the last thirty years followed the V-weapons pattern, and it has been impossible for the Coalition partners to actually describe what kind of weapon of mass destruction was supposedly under development in Irak, or to release a single photograph of the installations upon which the knowledge was based.


Oberst E-Mann

The project in Hitler's Germany with the highest of all ratings bar none was AEG "Charite-Anlage" classified "Kriegsentscheidend" in 1942. It was linked to theoretical work entitled "Separation of Magnetic Fields". The Bell was a steel cylinder with ceramic lined interior nine feet in height and five feet in diameter inside which plasma physics work was conducted. This work involved counter-rotating at tremendous speeds two containers of mercury and heavy metal substances to create plasmoids. (As a side effect, when this equipment was in operation, the magnetic field it set up could cut out the magneto of a conventional aircraft flying anywhere within seven miles, causing it to crash.) Russian scientists were still able to measure a strong alien magnetic field of unknown origin at Ohrdruf as late as 1980. There were at least three Bells: at Waldenburg near Breslau, at Ohrdruf and probably at FHQ Adlerhorst.

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Post by Y Ddraig Goch » 24 Dec 2004 19:30

ohrdruf

I believe that Iraq's missile development evolved as it did was because Iraq was supplied vast amounts of weapons by the Soviet Union. Among these weapons were Scud missiles, the Scud was a Soviet development of the original German V-2 missile.

Given that the Iraq miitary had these Scuds it would be logical that any development, which did not include a new missile system would involve the Scud and its modification.

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