Ju 390 Help!

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ThatZenoGuy
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by ThatZenoGuy » 08 Nov 2021 01:35

Simon Gunson wrote:
08 Nov 2021 01:31
ThatZenoGuy wrote:
07 Nov 2021 03:28
So what was the intended role of the 390? It's a massive bloody plane but if wikipedia is to be believed it's bombload was about 7200 kilograms, less than half of the maximum B29 load of 20 tons? All on a chassis who's top takeoff weight was 10 tons at the least higher than the 29's.
Just curious, where do you get 10 tons from?
It allegedly has only four external hardpoints for bombs, and I am not sure if they could've handled the 2500 monsters Germany occasionally had. Wikipedia (yeah I know, its not remotely a good source but its a baseline i suppose?) lists 1800 bombs instead.

Denniss
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Denniss » 09 Nov 2021 18:20

The south African flight did not happen either

Larry D.
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Larry D. » 09 Nov 2021 20:52

Nor did Matsuwa (Mitua) airfield have anything to do with long-range aircraft flying from Germany. The Wermacht fuel drums were brought to Ostrov Matua shortly after the Soviets occupied it on 23 August 1945.

L.

ju55dk
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by ju55dk » 10 Nov 2021 21:36

There is a lot of crab information in this tread. The Ju 390 never had a fligt in the atlantic, and was never with FAGr 5 in France. In the 90'thies I interwied a lot af crewmembers from FAGr 5, and accessed a bunch of Flugbücher. No one have ever seen a Ju 390. And attached a report from LW-KM about the bird wich with a little luck Junckers would have had 2 maschines ready end 1944. Surviving company records also confirm that the Ju 390 stayed in eastern Germany. BAMA
DSC08114.JPG
DSC08115.JPG
In september 1944 it was'nt even considered an option anymore

Junker
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Larry D.
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Larry D. » 10 Nov 2021 23:20

Thanks for posting - an Important and much needed document, Jörn.

We all have a responsibility here to debunk myth-makers and rumor-mongers using solid proof from corroborated primary documents and other high quality sources.

L

Simon Gunson
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Simon Gunson » 25 Dec 2021 23:56

There were definitely two JU390 flown. The late Ron Whylie of Sydney took this photo of Ju 390 V1 IN December 1942 taken whilst SS Cameronia & Convoy KMF-5 were under attack. When I approached Ron he had no idea what the aircraft was?
The image was published on Ron's behalf by the Australian Maritime Union who created a tribute blog for Ron.

Image

Conventional history asserts the Ju390 first flew in October 1943

GH+UK demonstrated for Hitler photographed 26th November 1943 Insterberg was Ju390 V2
Image

Image

Now Kossler & Ott assert the Ju390 first flew September 1944, which begs the question what was demonstrated for Hitler in 1943?

The fuselage of Ju 390 V2 was 34.2m, or several feet longer than the V1

One can easily see that Ju390 V2 stkz GH+UK has the longer fuselage.
Image


Records of the Luftwaffe Quartermaster general reveal that Junkers were paid for seven completed Ju390 airframes. [G,Brooks]

MikeMeech
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by MikeMeech » 26 Dec 2021 11:58

Simon Gunson wrote:
25 Dec 2021 23:56
There were definitely two JU390 flown. The late Ron Whylie of Sydney took this photo of Ju 390 V1 IN December 1942 taken whilst SS Cameronia & Convoy KMF-5 were under attack. When I approached Ron he had no idea what the aircraft was?
The image was published on Ron's behalf by the Australian Maritime Union who created a tribute blog for Ron.

Image

Conventional history asserts the Ju390 first flew in October 1943

GH+UK demonstrated for Hitler photographed 26th November 1943 Insterberg was Ju390 V2
Image

Image

Now Kossler & Ott assert the Ju390 first flew September 1944, which begs the question what was demonstrated for Hitler in 1943?

The fuselage of Ju 390 V2 was 34.2m, or several feet longer than the V1

One can easily see that Ju390 V2 stkz GH+UK has the longer fuselage.
Image


Records of the Luftwaffe Quartermaster general reveal that Junkers were paid for seven completed Ju390 airframes. [G,Brooks]
Hi

There is still a problem with the use of a Ju 390 over Convoy KMF-5 in December 1942. I take it we all agree that the JU 390 was based on the JU 290, the latter first flew 16 July 1942 (a 'converted' JU 90) and was in flight testing from August 1942. The first pre-production JU 290 was completed in October 1942, the JU 290 being operational with FAGr5 from 15 October 1943.
For the JU 390 prototype to be over a convoy in December 1942 then it must have been a 'concurrent' design with the JU 290 and before work on JU 290 production examples was completed! This does not make much sense, unless it is being alleged that all the information on the JU 290 in numerous books is also incorrect and first flight dates moved to 1941 or something?

Mike

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Cantankerous
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Cantankerous » 27 Dec 2021 17:20

Larry D. wrote:
10 Nov 2021 23:20
Thanks for posting - an Important and much needed document, Jörn.

We all have a responsibility here to debunk myth-makers and rumor-mongers using solid proof from corroborated primary documents and other high quality sources.

L
I've consulted the works of the late Manfred Griehl but also books by Dan Sharp for info about obscure piston-powered combat aircraft projects designed in Nazi Germany, including the Heinkel He 277, Heinkel He 177B, and Junkers Ju 390. The works of those authors rely on wartime documents to correct inaccuracies in pre-recent books on German military aircraft of World War II, including the claim that He 177B was a cover designation by Heinkel for the He 277 project and that the Ju 390 made a demonstration flight to within a few miles of Manhattan to test the Ju 390's capability to attack Manhattan.

Denniss
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Denniss » 28 Dec 2021 11:07

Not this BS again - there was no Ju 390 in 1942, this alleged photo is a known fake.

https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... post503904
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... post503918
Die RC+DA ist übrigens eine Fotomontage von Gert Heumann, seinerzeit Redakteur bei der Flug Revue. Er hat leider mehrere solche Phantasiegrafiken auf dem Gewissen. Green und Heumann arbeiteten als duo infernale in den 50er und 60er sehr eng zusammen und haben viele Unwahrheiten in die Welt gesetzt, die später nur noch schwer zu korrigieren waren und sind.
in short: a faked image made by Gert Heumann of Flug Revue, he made multiple of those fakes. Heumann + Green = Duo infernale supplying lots of fake info.

ewest89
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by ewest89 » 28 Dec 2021 18:05

Thank you for this information. I wonder why anyone would go through the trouble of producing fake images like this.

Denniss
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Denniss » 29 Dec 2021 00:13

He probably had a nice artice to publish but no access to a real image (or believing all images were lost). So he took a Ju 290 image and modified it to look like a 390.

ThatZenoGuy
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by ThatZenoGuy » 31 Dec 2021 17:07

Denniss wrote:
28 Dec 2021 11:07
Not this BS again - there was no Ju 390 in 1942, this alleged photo is a known fake.

https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... post503904
https://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/inde ... post503918
Die RC+DA ist übrigens eine Fotomontage von Gert Heumann, seinerzeit Redakteur bei der Flug Revue. Er hat leider mehrere solche Phantasiegrafiken auf dem Gewissen. Green und Heumann arbeiteten als duo infernale in den 50er und 60er sehr eng zusammen und haben viele Unwahrheiten in die Welt gesetzt, die später nur noch schwer zu korrigieren waren und sind.
in short: a faked image made by Gert Heumann of Flug Revue, he made multiple of those fakes. Heumann + Green = Duo infernale supplying lots of fake info.
That post alone doesn't really prove anything though, it's just some forum user making claims with fancy writing.
The post does however have some images which require an account to view, you could post the pictures here so we can see what he's talking about. I'm very curious about how they kitbashed photos back then. Lots of known examples of it taking place during those times.

ewest89
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by ewest89 » 31 Dec 2021 20:20

There is no such thing as kitbashed. Photo manipulation was developed shortly after photographic film became available. However, due to the nature of the question, I have no desire to assist present-day photo forgers, and there is too much forgery going on.

ThatZenoGuy
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by ThatZenoGuy » 01 Jan 2022 03:21

ewest89 wrote:
31 Dec 2021 20:20
There is no such thing as kitbashed. Photo manipulation was developed shortly after photographic film became available. However, due to the nature of the question, I have no desire to assist present-day photo forgers, and there is too much forgery going on.
So you won't post the pictures so we can see if it's forged at all?...You can't just make a claim and provide literally nothing but heresy. XD

Denniss
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Re: Ju 390 Help!

Post by Denniss » 01 Jan 2022 21:43

same as posting photos claiming to be real despite the facts even from the manufacturer tell us a Ju 390 did not exist by the time the photo was allegedly made. Sadly its a well know fact that this editor of Flugrevue manipulated images to illustrate his magazine.

That is not even accounting for the hardly believeable story of who and where this photo was made - very close to an enemy convoy and nobody had weapons to shoot at this fat target? And the pilot being dumb anough to fly low and close to enemy convoy, ignoring the possible AA equipment of enemy ships?

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