Best american bomber compared to german bombers

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daveshoup2MD
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Re: Best american bomber compared to german bombers

Post by daveshoup2MD » 26 Apr 2021 07:07

SpicyJuan wrote:
26 Apr 2021 06:15
daveshoup2MD wrote:
26 Apr 2021 06:06
Your question - Which aircraft do you think would've been the "best" if properly developed?
So why did you bring in the He 177 at all when it was not mentioned in the OP?
The OP includes the cartoon of the supposed He 277. None of the German heavy bomber designs were equivalent to their US and British counterparts.

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SpicyJuan
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Re: Best american bomber compared to german bombers

Post by SpicyJuan » 26 Apr 2021 13:51

daveshoup2MD wrote:
26 Apr 2021 07:07
SpicyJuan wrote:
26 Apr 2021 06:15
daveshoup2MD wrote:
26 Apr 2021 06:06
Your question - Which aircraft do you think would've been the "best" if properly developed?
So why did you bring in the He 177 at all when it was not mentioned in the OP?
The OP includes the cartoon of the supposed He 277.
The He 277 was basically an entirely new design sharing remarkably little with the He 177. If you know so little about the subject, why do you bother making such strong and wrong claims like...
daveshoup2MD wrote:
26 Apr 2021 07:07
None of the German heavy bomber designs were equivalent to their US and British counterparts.
As I showed in the massive spreadsheet, this is not true at all, the He 177 was equal to its contemporary bombers. As for German counterparts to the B-29, my OP also shows this to be false. You can debate that those are estimates and that none of those designs would have matched their estimates, but you cannot say the designs themselves were not equivalent or even superior to many allied bombers.

reedwh52
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Re: Best american bomber compared to german bombers

Post by reedwh52 » 26 Apr 2021 23:42

Just as a comment. The original question dealt with comparisons between designs for the Amerika bomber and devolved from there, with comparisons between Allied & German contemporaries. However, the . term contemporary is somewhat misleading. The actual contemporaries based on first flight in the US were the B29, B32 and B36. The B.17 first flew more than seven years prior to the first flight of either the Ju.390 or Me.264.

The B.29 flew 3 months before the Me.264.

Model First flight
Ta 400 N/A
Fw 238 N/A
He 277 N/A
Ju 390 10/20/1943
Me 264 12/23/1942

B_17 7/28/1935
B.29 9/21/1942
B36 8/8/1946
B.32 9/7/1942

daveshoup2MD
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Re: Best american bomber compared to german bombers

Post by daveshoup2MD » 27 Apr 2021 05:57

SpicyJuan wrote:
26 Apr 2021 13:51
[
As I showed in the massive spreadsheet, this is not true at all, the He 177 was equal to its contemporary bombers. As for German counterparts to the B-29, my OP also shows this to be false. You can debate that those are estimates and that none of those designs would have matched their estimates, but you cannot say the designs themselves were not equivalent or even superior to many allied bombers.
Did any German four-engined bomber designed and built in the 1930s and 1940s "match their estimates"?

A significant - some would say the most significant - element of any successful design is that it can be manufactured and put into service?

"Design exercises" are just that.

daveshoup2MD
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Re: Best american bomber compared to german bombers

Post by daveshoup2MD » 27 Apr 2021 05:58

reedwh52 wrote:
26 Apr 2021 23:42
Just as a comment. The original question dealt with comparisons between designs for the Amerika bomber and devolved from there, with comparisons between Allied & German contemporaries. However, the . term contemporary is somewhat misleading. The actual contemporaries based on first flight in the US were the B29, B32 and B36. The B.17 first flew more than seven years prior to the first flight of either the Ju.390 or Me.264.

The B.29 flew 3 months before the Me.264.

Model First flight
Ta 400 N/A
Fw 238 N/A
He 277 N/A
Ju 390 10/20/1943
Me 264 12/23/1942

B_17 7/28/1935
B.29 9/21/1942
B36 8/8/1946
B.32 9/7/1942
Those N/As are doing a lot of work, aren't they? ;)

Or to turn it around, the B-17's German contemporary was the He. 111...

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SpicyJuan
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Re: Best american bomber compared to german bombers

Post by SpicyJuan » 27 Apr 2021 12:33

daveshoup2MD wrote:
27 Apr 2021 05:58
reedwh52 wrote:
26 Apr 2021 23:42
Just as a comment. The original question dealt with comparisons between designs for the Amerika bomber and devolved from there, with comparisons between Allied & German contemporaries. However, the . term contemporary is somewhat misleading. The actual contemporaries based on first flight in the US were the B29, B32 and B36. The B.17 first flew more than seven years prior to the first flight of either the Ju.390 or Me.264.

The B.29 flew 3 months before the Me.264.

Model First flight
Ta 400 N/A
Fw 238 N/A
He 277 N/A
Ju 390 10/20/1943
Me 264 12/23/1942

B_17 7/28/1935
B.29 9/21/1942
B36 8/8/1946
B.32 9/7/1942
Those N/As are doing a lot of work, aren't they? ;)

Or to turn it around, the B-17's German contemporary was the He. 111...
You don’t know what “contemporary” means, do you? It’s both time and class of airplane. In no way was the He 111 designed to be a heavy or strategic bomber. But you knew this already and are being disingenuous.

daveshoup2MD
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Re: Best american bomber compared to german bombers

Post by daveshoup2MD » 28 Apr 2021 04:45

SpicyJuan wrote:
27 Apr 2021 12:33
You don’t know what “contemporary” means, do you? It’s both time and class of airplane. In no way was the He 111 designed to be a heavy or strategic bomber. But you knew this already and are being disingenuous.
No, "contemporary" is defined by time. You're thinking of "comparable."

Two different meanings.

See:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... %20or,noun

contemporary - existing or happening in the same time period : from the same time period

comparable - capable of or suitable for comparison; meaning "an examination of two or more items to establish similarities and dissimilarities"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comparable

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