Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
Andreas
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Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Post by Andreas » 09 Sep 2007 12:29

Can someone tell me when this was set up?

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Jon G.
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Post by Jon G. » 06 Nov 2007 16:27

I have Generalmajor Theo Osterkamp commanding the Luftgaustab z.b.V. Afrika from July 18th 1941 while he was also Fliegerführer Afrika. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that this Stab was set up at that date.

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askropp
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Re: Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Post by askropp » 04 Jun 2016 18:31

Has anybody reliable info on the commanders? Hildebrand again is faulty:

04.01.1941 - 31.08.1941 Oberst (01.08.1941 Generalmajor) Hans Schüz (MIA over the Mediterranean)
18.07.1941 - 31.03.1942 Generalmajor Theodor Osterkamp (allegedly also Fliegerführer Afrika, which cannot be true because of Fröhlich)
31.03.1942 - 05.08.1942 Generalmajor (01.08.1942 Generalleutnant) Heinrich Burchard

Schüz is alleged to have resided in "Catania, then Rome", but ww2.dk says the Luftgaukommando was in Libya from February 1941.
Also, the promotion and death dates of Schüz suggest the question if he could have been promoted to GM posthumously?

From ww2.dk, I learned:
05.08.1942 - 15.03.1943 Generalmajor Gottlob Müller (afterward Luftgau Tunis)
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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askropp
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Re: Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Post by askropp » 24 Sep 2017 13:41

Another info from 12 o'clock high:

He 111H-5, Erpr.St. d. Lw. Rechlin, WNr. 3921
FF Fw Rolf Kuck
BO Ob.St.Ing. Kurt Fritsche
BF Fw Kurt Muller
BM Flg Fritz Freyer
Fluggast Oberst Schüz
alle vermisst
[Info by Matti Salonen]

This obviously confirms that Schüz was promoted posthumously.
Last edited by askropp on 24 Sep 2017 15:28, edited 1 time in total.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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Re: Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Post by Larry D. » 24 Sep 2017 14:41

Luftgaustab z.b.V. Afrika
(FpN: L 00143)

Kommandeur:
Gen.Maj. Hans Schüz (4 Jan 41 - 31 Aug 41) †
Gen.Maj. Theodor Osterkamp (18 Jul 41 - 31 Mar 42)
Gen.Maj. Heinrich Burchard, acting (21 Feb 42 - 5 Aug 42)
Gen.Maj. Gottlob Müller (Aug 42 - 15 Mar 43)

Formation and History. (Jan 41 - Mar 43)
Ordered formed o/a 4 January 1941 as a logistical support command for Fliegerführer Afrika and other Luftwaffe forces that began arriving in Libya in February 1941 to assist Germany’s Italian allies. The Stab was probably formed or assembled in Germany during January and then moved to Italy from where it was transported to Tripoli during February and March.

North Africa
Apr 41 – May 41: shortly after arriving in Tripoli, the front line was moved rapidly eastward as Rommel’s combined German and Italian ground forces launched their first offensive toward Tobruk, and this allowed the Luftgaustab to move forward to Benina, just inland from Benghazi.
etc., etc., etc.

Sources:
G.Tessin-Verbände und Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS im Zweiten Weltkrieg 1939-1945, Teil 14: Die Luftstreitkräfte (Osnabrück, 1980); K.Mehner/R.Teuber - Die deutsche Luftwaffe 1939-1945: Führung und Truppe (Norderstedt: 1993); K.Gundelach - Die deutsche Luftwaffe im Mittelmeer 1940-1945, 2 Bde (Frankfurt/M., 1981), p.577; N.Kannapin - Die deutsche Feldpostübersicht 1939-1945, 3 Bde (I – III) (Osnabrück, 1980-82); NARA WashDC: RG 242 (T-77 Luftwaffenpersonalamt officer assignment orders); (T-971 roll 36); PRO London: DEFE 3 ULTRA signals, incl. MK7835, MKA1154, QT5663, QT6184, QT9028); AIR 40 Air Ministry intelligence reports and lists based on ULTRA, “Y” Service intercepts, captured documents and PoW interrogations.

L.

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Urmel
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Re: Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Post by Urmel » 31 Dec 2021 13:11

Osterkamp took over as Fliegerführer Afrika for an interim period, I presume February 42 to March 42.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Post by Urmel » 31 Dec 2021 13:13

Can someone confirm the command relationship, if any, between Fliegerführer and Luftgau? I presume they were the same level and reported both to X. Fliegerkorps. Is that correct? Or did one report to Italuft?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Larry D.
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Re: Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Post by Larry D. » 31 Dec 2021 14:40

Depends on the level of subordination:
Tactical
Administrative
Disciplinary
Housekeeping (supply)

Fliegerführer was a tactical command while Luftgau was a logistical command.

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Urmel
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Re: Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Post by Urmel » 31 Dec 2021 17:48

Ah... this isn't as straightforward...

Let's start here - was there any of these relationships where Luftgaustab and Fliegerführer were in a command relationship with each other, rather than just cooperating?
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Larry D.
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Re: Luftgaustab Afrika z.b.V. Afrika

Post by Larry D. » 31 Dec 2021 22:22

In one short sentence, not to my knowledge so I could give an example. The Stab of a Fliegerführer was relatively small and typically had a personnel strength of 15 officers, 17 NCOs and 42 men. If this Stab was inactive because it was "in formation" or the the process of disbanding, reorganizing, resting, etc., I can see where it might be subordinate to a Luftgaustab for rations, billeting, transportation, etc., but I think that would only be for a few weeks or months until it was reactivated or had become history.

L.

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