Were the first Soviet jets copies of German aircraft designs

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
Zygmunt
Member
Posts: 1599
Joined: 31 May 2002 19:50
Location: Wielka Brytania

Post by Zygmunt » 13 May 2006 22:30

Firstly; interesting thread, but wouldn't (it technically speaking) be best suited to the Post-WWII section? Just a thought.

Secondly;
Brian Ross wrote:They were as capable, if not more so than their comparable Western counterpart, the Canberra.
I take it that you are referring to Davide Pastore's post (above yours) about the Yak-25 and Yak-28. If so, are you sure you're thinking of the Yak-28? The aircraft most often compared to the Canberra is the Il-28 Beagle. Just wanted to check.

Regarding the Yak-28, I've never seriously investigated the design, but I picked up the general impression that it was a specific design for a specific task: intercepting SAC bombers over the vast spaces of the Soviet Union. Hence a large aircraft with long range.

Zygmunt

User avatar
Davide Pastore
Member
Posts: 2768
Joined: 26 Nov 2005 22:05
Location: Germagnano, Italy

Post by Davide Pastore » 13 May 2006 22:51

Zygmunt wrote: Regarding the Yak-28, I've never seriously investigated the design, but I picked up the general impression that it was a specific design for a specific task: intercepting SAC bombers over the vast spaces of the Soviet Union. Hence a large aircraft with long range.
The Yak-28P Firebar (fighter variant of the Yak-28 Brewer) entered production in 1962 as a long-range interceptor. In the same year the Tu-128P Fiddler was being test flown in the same role (it was accepted in service in 1965). Comparing the two planes, they do not seem spaced by three years but by ten or maybe twenty. There is really no comparison. The Yak-28 is really a war-of-Korea-vintage type of plane by its architecture.

Later Yakovlev proposed a further evolution of the same architecture, the Yak-28-64 (subject of a forum quiz some weeks ago) flying in 1966, when the PVO was starting to receive the Su-15 Flagon, and the MiG-25 was flying as a prototype. Compared to these two, the Yak-28-64 really seems coming from another age. However, this time the high-placed political connections did not help Yakovlev, since the plane was not chosen.

Davide

User avatar
Brian Ross
Member
Posts: 861
Joined: 29 May 2005 08:34
Location: Australia

Post by Brian Ross » 14 May 2006 06:37

Zygmunt wrote: Secondly;
Brian Ross wrote:They were as capable, if not more so than their comparable Western counterpart, the Canberra.
I take it that you are referring to Davide Pastore's post (above yours) about the Yak-25 and Yak-28. If so, are you sure you're thinking of the Yak-28? The aircraft most often compared to the Canberra is the Il-28 Beagle. Just wanted to check.
Perhaps when it was introduced into service. Both the Canberra and the Yak-28 hung around for a long time.

User avatar
Ome_Joop
Member
Posts: 783
Joined: 10 May 2004 15:56
Location: Noordwijk(erhout)

Post by Ome_Joop » 14 May 2006 08:45

Comparing A Tu-128 with a Yak-28 ???
A Tu-128 is almost twice as big ofcoarse there is no comparison!
Don't forget a Yak-28 is an evolution from a 1947 design.....and it even than it doesn't look that bad!

User avatar
Davide Pastore
Member
Posts: 2768
Joined: 26 Nov 2005 22:05
Location: Germagnano, Italy

Post by Davide Pastore » 14 May 2006 10:08

Ome_Joop wrote:Comparing A Tu-128 with a Yak-28 ???
A Tu-128 is almost twice as big ofcoarse there is no comparison!
Precisely: there is no comparison (as there is no comparison between the Yak-28-64 and the MiG-25). My point is, both planes entered service more or less in the same years, and were employed in the same role (as long-range interceptors above the vast Siberia). If you were the power-that-be in the Kremlin, which one of the two planes would you have chosen to build?

Davide

User avatar
Cantankerous
Member
Posts: 742
Joined: 01 Sep 2019 21:22
Location: Newport Coast

Re: Were the first Soviet jets copies of German aircraft designs

Post by Cantankerous » 18 May 2022 17:29

The Ilyushin Il-22 jet bomber (not to be confused with the Il-22 airborne command post version of the Il-18 turboprop airliner) traced its most of its design heritage to the Heinkel He 343 tactical jet bomber project, especially in the jet engine arrangement, although the Il-22's nose configuration was reminiscent of the B-29 and Tu-4, unlike the He 343's cockpit canopy. It's reasonable to assume that Soviet troops got their hands on some Heinkel company documents for the He 343 when they entered the Heinkel headquarters in Vienna in early 1945. The first Soviet strategic jet bombers, the Tupolev Tu-16 and Myasishchev M-4 Bison, faithfully followed the engine placement of the Junkers EF 132 strategic bomber project, which had six turbojets buried in the wing roots.

PunctuationHorror
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 05 Jun 2021 16:41
Location: America

Re: Were the first Soviet jets copies of German aircraft designs

Post by PunctuationHorror » 18 May 2022 22:34

Never heard of Junkers EF 132. Thanks for your comment. It looks astonishingly similar to the Boeing B-47. Approx same layout, same design, same size, same number of engines ... no doubt some 'inspirations' were taken from the Junkers.

User avatar
Cantankerous
Member
Posts: 742
Joined: 01 Sep 2019 21:22
Location: Newport Coast

Re: Were the first Soviet jets copies of German aircraft designs

Post by Cantankerous » 18 May 2022 22:46

PunctuationHorror wrote:
18 May 2022 22:34
Never heard of Junkers EF 132. Thanks for your comment. It looks astonishingly similar to the Boeing B-47. Approx same layout, same design, same size, same number of engines ... no doubt some 'inspirations' were taken from the Junkers.
The B-47 actually had engines under the wings, not in the wing roots.

Return to “Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general”